VT gun range, police and VT law

[Glenn E. Meyer]

http://www.policeone.com/media-relations/articles/6103568-Vt-police-barred-from-gun-range/

The gist is that a local gun range is prohibiting police practice as the Burlington city council is considering a ban on guess what?

I thought that a local city in VT couldn't override state law and that Burlington had tried similar measures in the past that failed.

I do have a fine 4 year old VT cheddar in the fridge. I would hate to have to cross VT cheeses of my list in protest!

 

[1stmar]

Insane, I told my wife about this she said maybe they are trying to mke a point.. If the public cant use "aw" neither can the police...

Sure would take gun control to a new level if even cops can't have "aw" or high cap mags ..

Chuck the cheese, get something from Wisconsin..

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

TX makes some fine cheddars, mozzarella and goat cheese. So does Oregon - both gun friendly. Although I am chomping on cultured butter from VT also.

Let's see what happens before I ditch them. I would like to know if I'm right about the state laws.

 

[lcpiper]

In Arizona it is in fact the case that Counties, Citys, and other political sub-divisions can not make laws or ordinances that are at odds with State laws. So Arizona's new CC law can't be countered by a city law, ordinance, whatever except where provision is granted in the State law.

You do have to check for that because State laws sometimes leave wiggle room and sometimes they don't.

 

[g.willikers]

Wonder how popular gun control would be if every range and club did this.

 

[Evan Thomas]

I told my wife about this she said maybe they are trying to mke a point.. If the public cant use "aw" neither can the police...

Yep. From the linked article:
"The leadership of the Lamoille Valley Fish and Game Club explained that it's "difficult" for the club to support the city -- even its officers -- given the actions of the council."

And, Glenn, don't panic about your nice Vermont cheese and butter. There's only one cheese maker anywhere near Burlington, so you have lots of options.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I do have a fine 4 year old VT cheddar in the fridge. I would hate to have to cross VT cheeses of my list in protest!

I've heard rumors that they have some cheeses coming out of Wisconsin ...

 

[RamItOne]

Not sure if - what's good for the goose is good for the gander- is the best line to describe it but I'm glad to see people making stands (civil, non violent)

Glen I'm sure central market will have plenty of non VT cheddar options

 

[NWPilgrim]

I heard on interview with one of the city councilwomen (whatever they are in VT) and she was saying their intent was that local ordinances like this get elevate to the State legislature for consideration as statewide laws. She is of the opinion that they often "lead the way" by passing these local laws and then the state process somehow picks them up. Sounded like some legal process peculiar to VT or the NE.

So they are trying to make this a state law if at all possible. If you live in VT, this is NOT just a Burlington issue. Kudos to the gun club to recognize the inconsistency of the city and calling them on it. IF it goes statewide then the VT police better start investing in building their own ranges, or maybe they will just use eminent domain and condemn and take possession of the private ranges. Something to think about.

 

[lcpiper]

You guys did pick up on what Atlanta's Mayor said after the Atlanta school shooting today?

Here is the article:
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/shooting-at-carver-high-school/nWB9y/?nmredir=true

Here is he quote;

Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed, in a press release, said, “Gun violence in and around our schools is simply unconscionable and must end.

So I get the question in my head, "So is he thinking owners and parants, etc... need to step up and do what's right, and he is going to back them up?"

Nope, he is with the other 749 bozos that are backing President Obama's new
http://thefiringline.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5395990
solution.

Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed joined more than 750 mayors across the country Wednesday in sending a letter to President Barack Obama in response to the shooting in Newtown, Conn., calling for reform in gun legislation.

Reed was among a dozen state mayors to join the coalition Mayors Against Illegal Guns. The group is led by New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Boston Mayor Thomas Menino.

 

[wayneinFL]

Yeah, but did you see what happened at Atlanta? They had metal detectors at the school, and the kid still got it in. Gun free zone and metal detectors didn't stop it.

A bad guy with a gun was stopped by a good guy with a gun, just like Wayne LaPierre said.

 

[Salmoneye]

I thought that a local city in VT couldn't override state law and that Burlington had tried similar measures in the past that failed.

They can't...

What they can do is once the 'ordinance' is passed, it can be sent to the Legislature on a request to ammend their City Charter...

However, this is an issue expressly set out as under the State's purview, and the charter can not be amended to outlaw guns, unless the State Constitution is amended to allow this...

The Council was told all of this by the City Lawyers, yet still went ahead with this silly move...

The only time the Constitution was challenged was in 1903 in State v. Rosenthal:



(Supreme Court of Vermont. Rutland. May 30, 1903.)

MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS--ORDINANCES--CARRYING WEAPONS--VALIDITY.

1. Const. c. 1, art. 16, declares that the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the state. V. S. 4922, prohibits any person from carrying a dangerous weapon, openly or concealed, with the intent of injuring another. Section 4923 prohibits a person, while a member of and in attendance on a school, from having in his possession any dangerous weapon. Held, that a city ordinance prohibiting a person from carrying within the city any brass knuckles, pistol, slung shot, or weapon of similar character, or any weapon concealed on his person, without permission of the mayor or chief of police, so far as it relates to the carrying of a pistol under any circumstances without such consent, is repugnant to the Constitution, and to that extent void.

http://www.guncite.com/court/state/55a610.html

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Yeah, but did you see what happened at Atlanta? They had metal detectors at the school, and the kid still got it in. Gun free zone and metal detectors didn't stop it.

A bad guy with a gun was stopped by a good guy with a gun, just like Wayne LaPierre said.

In fact, I think the shooter was initially stopped by an unarmed teacher, who was then assisted by the SRO. And the SRO didn't shoot the miscreant, so there was no armed response to the shooter. While I am exceedingly happy the incident was stopped before more kids were shot, I don't view this incident as a poster child for the effectiveness of armed personnel in schools.

And I, too, shook my head over the news that a kid got a gun into a school equipped with metal detectors. Must have been one of those Glocks that don't show up on X-ray.

 

[lcpiper]

No, he shot the other kid while they were outside the building. He didn't get the gun inside.