Virgin Brass - Does it need resized?

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orsogato

New member
Hi all. I loaded up about 50 rounds of 7.5x55 swiss ammo. The brass was brand new virgin brass from GRAFS (headstamped Grafs). The C.O.L. was fine on all of the pieces of brass. I did not run them through a FL sizer die thinking that virgin brass should be the proper size. I couldn't chamber about 3/4 of the cartridges in my K-31.

Anybody else have this problem with Virgin brass? Do you always need to FL size virgin brass?
 
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Zak Smith

New member
Check to see if it's not chambering because the bullet ogive is contacting the lands. You still might have an OAL issue.

I've never had a problem chambering new brass. I don't even bother to neck size Lapua brass before loading.
 
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Zak Smith

New member
I've had some dinged case mouths in the 6.5x47 brass, but if it's not real bad, I just seat them in. Still shoots better than 1/2 MOA. I don't worry about it.
 
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Linear Thinker

New member
K31 and other straight pull action rifles present a special problem for reloaders: the straight pull action does not have the camming force of bolt actions. So, the brass that is even slightly oversize or non-concentric will not seat. Swiss rifles are very precisely made, and will not forgive any deviation from the specs.

You need to full-length size the brass, every time.
I needed to do so even with the new Norma brass for my K31. A tack driver, with IMR4895 and Sierra 168gr MKs.
LT
 
W

Wildalaska

Moderator
I've had some dinged case mouths in the 6.5x47 brass, but if it's not real bad, I just seat them in. Still shoots better than 1/2 MOA. I don't worry about it
Click to expand...

My last load of brass was so poorly packed that the box had burst in the packaging.

I got some $$ off for that one.

I had SD issues the last time I chronyed, I think it could be because of dinged mouths I did not resize

WildbutgroupsweregoodimustsayAlaska TM
 
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stinger

New member
I think it's good form to size all new brass, but why not give Graf's a call and find out what they recommend?

You did not list the bullet that you used or your oal, but I'd also wager that the ogive is contacting the lands, and given the lack of camming power with the straight pull action, you can't push it in. That is probably a good thing, because you ought to correct the oal (assuming it is too long) and not cram the bullet into the barrel. I realize many do just that with spectacular results, but I don't think this is a situation where that is ideal.

These rifles have a very short throat and load info is usually for the older Swiss rifles with longer throats.

In other words, a shorter seating depth would (probably) solve your problem. Give us a bit more info to work with.
 
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Uncle Don

New member
I'm basically with Stinger. It's not worth the time to me to check anything, just easier just to run them through the sizer, then you know there will be no deformed necks and all are sized properly. If they didn't need it, they won't be worked in the die anyway.

I also have a K31 and prepare all new brass (Privi from Grafs) by sizing, deburring the flash hole and chamfering the neck inside and out. I use a Collet sizing die and have loaded the same 20 about 20 times and haven't had to trim yet, and they are still hanging in there just fine. The only thing I've done is anneal them at about 15 times through.
 
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Sevens

New member
In all the years I've been handloading, I've never purchased new brass... always shooting factory stuff to get my supply. Well, that changed when I began loading for 8x57. I ordered two bags of 50 pieces of new Winchester brass, and out of 100, there wasn't even one piece of brass that had a round hole at the case mouth. Every single piece was absolutely deformed. It almost looked like deforming the case mouth was part of the process.

I'd have to neck size at the minimum, but I just went ahead and FL resized them all.
 
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Trapper L

New member
I always resize virgin brass. Most all of the factory boxes will tell you to resize it. I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to do it right the first time. With new brass I've seen no flash holes, off center flash holes, cases far too long, shoulders not pushed back correctly, buldges in the walls, rims not entirely formed. You're not going to find these unless you are handling them and inspecting as you resize. Anything less is reckless.
 
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Wildalaska

Moderator
With new brass I've seen no flash holes, off center flash holes, cases far too long, shoulders not pushed back correctly, buldges in the walls, rims not entirely formed.
Click to expand...

Buy Lapua then :)

WildthebestAlaska
 
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Scorch

New member
I always resize and trim new cases. Resize to get rid of dings and dents, trim to square up the case mouths and ensure all the cases are the same length.
It almost looked like deforming the case mouth was part of the process.
Click to expand...
That's because the cutoff saws tip the cases when they cut them off, and the brass drops a couple of feet into a bin as it comes off the equipment, and brass is soft so it dings.
 
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nate45

New member
I always resize and trim new cases. Resize to get rid of dings and dents, trim to square up the case mouths and ensure all the cases are the same length.
Click to expand...

+1

I loaded some new Win 9mm brass last week and I could feel the sizing die taking every one of them down.
 
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castnblast

New member
For consistancy, I always full length size and trim all my "virgin" brass...This helps me from second guessing myself, and eliminates some what if factors. Additionally, It takes very little time to do this since 90% of it is good to go.

Nothing beats a fresh piece of brass....:D
 
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crowbeaner

New member
I'm a tightwad by nature and if the spouse lets me spend the moolah for shiny new brass, I go completly through it from start to finish. I FL size, run it through the trimmer with the minimum trim length set, deburr the flash holes, and cut the primer pockets to the same depth. I try to squeeze every bit of life and accuracy out of every penny I spent. If I had the moolah for Lapua, I'd spend it and STILL go through the motions. I just wouldn't have to spend as much time on each step because the case to case variations are much less. My old .222 may not have a tight benchrest custom chamber but it will put an entire box of ammo into one ragged hole if I'm having a good day and the wind cooperates. You have to look at a new batch of brass as an investment in precision, and every step you take to uniform the cases is money in the bank. Just my $0.02. Enjoy. CB.
 
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orsogato

New member
O.A.L. on Swiss issue GP11 is 3.043''

O.A.L. on the cartridges I loaded is 2.950'' which is what the Sierra manual recomends for the 150 grain SBT gameking I am using.

I don't think the bullet was touching the lands.

The bottom line seems to be that virgin factory brass, at least this stuff from Grafs, is not the proper size, and it needs to be run through a FL die. I would never have imagined that to be the case (no pun intended) for virgin factory brass.

Thanks for the info and replies
 
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stinger

New member
The usual disclaimers apply about verifiying data and not blowing yourself up.

Remember, the shape of the Swiss bullet is different than ones with which we have access.

I think I've loaded that same bullet...I'll go check.

Nope, I didn't. But I have loaded 155 Palma, Speer 168 HPBT (Yuck!), Sierra 180 (Pro-Hunter), and 165 (Game King).

OAL's I've used...I used a trial and error approach and seated until I could chamber smoothly.

180g - 2.900oal
168g - 2.885oal
165g - 2.835oal
155g - 2.945oal

You may or may not be at the lands. I'd place a $0.02 wager that you are, though.
 
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K

kingudaroad

New member
I had some new Remington 6mm rem that would not chamber in my 700 vls without a fl sizing. Shoulders had to be bumped back a bit.
 
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