Viper Part 2...

[Drjones]

Ok. Talked some more with my dad....

It seems that my Uncles insurance on the car is primary, and mine is secondary, which means that the costs will be covered by HIS insurance.

However, apparently all claims go to some master reporting agency, so my insurance will hear of this incident, and likely will be affected.

My dad says that my uncle is the type of person who VERY likely will have his insurance agency sue mine to recoup costs. This will obviously very likely cause my rates to go up even higher.

Is this ethical/acceptable behavior for one family member to another?

My uncle is like a second father to me (obviously, or else he wouldn't have loaned me the car in the first place!) and we are very close. I have a lot of respect for him, but if he does that, I think I may lose a bit.

I am NOT trying to worm out of any responsibilities that I have to get the car fixed. I simply think its a bit "over-the-top" for him to do that. Almost like adding insult to injury.

What do you think?

 

[Libertarian]

Is this ethical/acceptable behavior for one family member to another?

It depends on the family. Mine - yes and no (depending on the relationship). My in-laws - never.

 

[Mike in VA]

I think it's 'just business'. It's likely that your uncle has little say in how his insurance company procedes if he decides to make the claim. His only alternatives are to a) eat it hisself; or b), let you pay the freight.

So then the issue is how much is the repair bill vs. the increase in premiums for you. A quick NPV analysis (net present value, e.g. the out of pocket cost today vs the increase ins. cost for a couple of years, plus cliam history if you have another incident in the nexrt couple years) might be helpful in determining your course of action. If teh amount isn't heinous, you might be better off paying it out of your own pocket vs what this could do to an 'unmarried male under 25' ins. rates.

Good luck.

 

[Greg L]

It sounds reasonable in a twisted sort of way. I would think that your insurance company should be the primary and his the secondary. If his company has to pay out the majority of the claim then his rates will probably skyrocket (if they haven't already). If your company has to pay for your accident rather than his then hopefully it shouldn't affect him much. Why should he have to pay for years for your mistake? To head off the lawsuit you might want to offer to pay the what the increase in his rates will be. If nothing else it shows real good faith on your part to make good on it.

Greg

 

[Pendragon]

I think:

1. He will not have a say in what his insurance co. does

2. If he did, it would be appropriate.

In CA, when a car is wrecked, it is covered by the owners insurance. now, if he had been uninsured or under-insured, then any spill over in liability would likely got to your insurance co.

If you did 10k in damage to the Viper, why should your uncles company have to absorb that - that would make HIS rates go up.

Unfortunately, thats how the law goes - but don't worry, it is very likely that your uncles insurance co will report the accident to the DMV - which I believe you are required to do as well. This will probably add a point to your license and might make your rates go up when you renew your policy.

This may seem unfair, but it is actually very fair. Not to beat on you - but you DID wreck a Viper - to any insurance company, that demonstrates that you are a greater risk than someone who has not wrecked a car. Funny thing about insurance companies - they have found that people who get in wrecks and get tickets are more likely to cost them money - so they charge them higher premiums...

Back in 2001 - just 2 days before 9/11, I borrowed my cousins almost new 4Runer to pickup an antique dresser for my wife. As I was pulling out, a Van was coming from my left - he put on his blinker, slowed down and made to turn into the driveway to my left (meaning he would not cross my way). I looked, saw this, looked right and pulled out - right as the van aborted his turn and scraped across the front of the borrowed truck.

This was my first real traffic accident and legally, it was my fault. I was lucky because AAA did not raise my cousins rates - if they had, I would have paid the difference. As it was, I paid his $250 deductible and that was that. We are close and he is a reasonable guy so it was not an issue - my sense of honor demanded that I be the only one to absorb any financial damage.

Anyway - I think that whatever the insurance companies do is their perogative, but if your uncle has to have his co. go after your co. to keep his rates from going up, then that is the right thing to do - and you should try and pro-actively see that thats how it ends up.

Good luck.

 

[OF]

I agree with Pendragon. You do whatever you have to do to insure that your Uncle doesn't pay for this.

- Gabe

 

[biere]

While it sounds weird to say they will sue your company, that is how they do it from what I understand about ohio.

If I have comprehensive, yeah right, insurance I make my insurance cut me a check to get car fixed and have at it. They go after who ever is at fault unless it is my bad, then they of course have no one to go after and jack my rates up.

The going after is suing in almost all cases I believe because it has to be proven who was at fault and what not, and insurance companies need it to be legally binding, no two guys are going to meet and trade an envelope of cash.

I do believe your uncle could choose not to turn it in, most likely all reported and what not but he most likely can tell them he will cover fixing it out of his pocket. When people have high deductables this is common, a 1000 dollar deductable is something you use for major damage, not the 500 dollar parking lot ding that busted a tail light and scratched the paint.

If that is the case you can make an offer to your uncle depending on your current savings, ownership of saleable stuff, current income, or ability to sell yourself for a low labor cost per hour that goes towards paying off the car repairs.

Someone will be out of pocket to fix the car. I have gotten "loans" from family before and worked it off and paid it off and in all cases I did a good job in doing it on time as I laid out to begin with, and in most cases the interest was either free yard work or something that cost me nothing but sweat and time.

Price the viper parts, get a true estimate from a great body shop or whatever if the spoiler needs to be painted and have them check everything out.

The cost and family will depend on what is done.

However, if I had someones car and I was using it for my purposes, I would allow them to choose all options I could put on the table as they should decide what works best in their case.

This is why I never borrow cars, I will take my parents cars when running errands and what not but if something gets hurt and I am not at fault everyone agrees it is different since I was helping them with their car.

Your case is your use of the car for you.

Course my family has some serious problems, so I would not go off my example only.

Glad to see things are moving and you have the right attitude. I would make all the offers you can for whatever to keep the insurance expense off your insurance, but that accident will show if there was a police report. You will get a slight increase from that.

I have no clue on the ratio of increase with and without your insurance covering the expense to fix the car.

Even if it runs you 5 grand over 3 years in more insurance, read your original post and think how cheap it is to learn.

My first 5 years driving cost that and more, about double I think, but it was so cheap because I learned life's lessons and lived through it as well with no major damage, just some scars.

Please keep us updated regardless, you have gotten lots of advice and I am learning a lot about how insurance and junk works from these guys who know more about it than me.

This post is worth the 75 cent beer it took me to get some of the spelling errors out.

 

[Pendragon]

My Sister and her Husband got a new Corvette about 6 months ago.

I have turned down many offers to drive it.

I do not want to take any chances - I never borrow cars and I never get in wrecks - the one time I borrow a truck, thats what happened.

If it happened to a 'Vette, I would be beside myself. I just do not see an upside.

 

[Drjones]

Well, I thought you all might like to know that I found out the following:

My uncles insurance is going to be the one to cover it, not mine.

My Uncles rates will NOT go up because he was not at fault.

He cannot have his ins. sue my ins. co. because:

a) That is what insurance is for; accidents. The car was in an accident, his insurance is obligated to pay for it.

b) I had permission to use the car.

I have been talking with my uncle, and though he was a bit disappointed and hurt, he expressed nothing but kind words and sentiments.

All I have to do now is rebuild the little bit of trust that was damaged.

I might like to add this is the ONLY screw-up I have ever had with my uncle.

Night....

 

[Bogie]

Okay - Here's what you do. Find a custom body shop that does VERY sharp paint jobs. After the folks get through fixing the car, offer to get him the custom paint job of his choice. This will cost you a bundle, but hey.

 

[Drjones]

Hahahaha Bogie....you're funny!

That's a good joke!!!

 

[Bogie]

Well, then get him something that you know he'll like. It'd better be nice. You bent his car, and he's gotta go through hassle because of your lead foot. Least you can do...

 

[Drjones]

I understand your point.

Sorry if I sounded harsh above, but this isn't just a car we're talking about.

God, this pains my heart to talk about this knowing I got it in an accident, but here goes...

The Viper in question was one of the first Viper GTS's. Back in 1996, all the GTS's were hand assembled and hand painted.

To give you a frame of reference, a "factory" paint job from a reputable shop in town for my family's 1991 Ford Explorer cost $5000.00.

Yes, Five Thousand.

Do you want to even begin to imagine what a paint job for a Viper GTS would cost???

I don't think I can count that high!!!

Besides, the paint was about 99.9% unscathed! Its pretty minty. Any paint job now would not even compare to the original job.

 

[biere]

Actually there are someplaces that are not that terrible. My dad loves old benzes, had a 71 280 sel restored in the early 90s. He could have bought a new benze with what he had done to body and stuff, he did not have engine rebuilt or suspension totally done right.

Paint is as perfect as you will get.

Mess around with some resoration places. But you want one certified for the foreign expensive stuff. The place that did this benz looks down on most common stuff, they barely fixed a caddy that was a few years old. They did it because my dad was still dealing with them on a regular basis as a friend and what not. So they did the caddy fender and bumper. They do major restorations, this benz had floor boards you could rip out by hand due to so much rust. They do italian stuff like ferrari, lamborghini, alfa, and all other german and top stuff. They also do touch ups.

Luckily you are not painting the entire car, and I know it will cost a lot for what little they fix.

But it will be as good as it gets without painting the entire thing.

I love cars, I love expensive cars. However I come from the concept that cars were meant to be driven, will get dings and scratches from road debris and miles put on them.

Shop around, see who is great in your area. I live in the sticks, but less than probably 50 miles away is someone I would trust to restore an ancient dino ferrari or lamborghini mura if I simply had a tow druck drop a square of cubed metal and an ignition key in their parking lot.

Find some benz and beemer dealers, they have a contract with this place for any acid rain or problems from shipping and what not with my favorite place.

Research hemmings, those guys are fanatics.

Shop around, do the best you can.

I know it is hard, heck I find it hard to imagine what you are going through.

But work bit by bit to do the best you can with this situation. You are learning early what it takes many decades to learn.

Admit a mistake, fix it the best you can, and deal with it rather than hide from it.

I have family members who hide if they accidently hurt something of yours and act like a little kid saying they did not do it.

The paint job can be fixed, but it will of course cost a bit. But you are not repainting the entire car.