VERY general question here..

Driveout02

New member
What if I wanted a 1911 style pistol that I could be sure would not FTF, and always fire straight, right out of the box?.. If I wanted a bare bones pistol, no fancy bells and whistles, without some nonsense 1500-round break-in period? Would you say that this pistol exists? And if so, would I have to refinance my house to own it?
~Jake.
 

Webleymkv

New member
Sorry to say it, but no such pistol exists. Everything man-made can fail and a gun is no exception. The no FTF thing is the real kicker because in a quality gun, a FTF is more often the fault of the ammo rather than the gun. As far as the no break in period. you may be able to get one that doesn't have to go 1500 rounds, but everyone can put out a lemon and I wouldn't trust any gun without putting at least a couple hundred rounds through it.
 

solz56

New member
Just about any gun requires a couple hundred rounds through it to test reliability before trusting it.

[edit] Buy a new Colt or Springfield and shoot it. If there are any issues at all the factory will make it right and pay shipping both ways.

my Springfield has been perfect from the beginning.
 

skeeter1

New member
I hate to say it, since this is the semiauto forum, but as much as I like my Beretta, if I'm looking for reliability, I'll grab one of my S&W revolvers. Maybe not as much fun, but they never have "stovepipe" jams and go bang every time I pull the trigger.

I'm glad I own both types, but when it comes to reliability, it's hard to beat a revolver.
 

joecad

New member
i have springer mil-spec that has about a thousand rounds thru it and has not had one malfunction. i am surprised but would not suggest that all mil-specs would be the same...or colts or whoever. if it or they had had a few mis-ques i would accept it as "normal". besides one should blow a few hundred rounds thru a new pistol just to get aquainted. go with a company that has a good solid reputation for superior customer service and if there are any problems they will be fixed.
 

44 AMP

Staff
Everything jams

It is a fact of life. Nothing is 100%. Fed quality ammo, most modern pistols have good reliability. 99.9999% is not unheard of, but can not be reasonably expected from an out of the box gun, especially since there is no way of knowing what ammo you are going to be using.

Think about it, manufacturers have to make their pistols work the majority of the time without having any way to control the ammo used, or the shooter's grip, or the environmental condition, the lube in the gun (or lack of it), etc.

Some guns manage very well. Others not so at first, then 'settle in". Some guns never seem to run right with some ammo. Others eat everything.

And the have to deliver this reliability at a rock bottm price, other wise people get on the internet and trash their product. "my expensive gun jams with the cheapest crappy ammo I can get, so it must be a piece of overpriced junk!" 90% of all the whining I read about reliability boils down top somewthing like this. Or, "it won't feed X brand hollowpoints, but works ok with Y brand, and FMJ.... "

I got news for you, no auto pistol designed before the 1950s was intended to feed hollowpoints. Not one. The fact that most do, and some do well is a bonus, but no basis for complaint if the gun doesn't. The 1911A1 got it's reputation for reliability using FMJ (ball) ammo.

Pistols designed later are still at their most reliable with ball ammo, but the designers have taken holliow point use into consideration. Most work, but some still have problems, usually more ammo related than any thing else.

You want a box stock 1911A1 to be reliable right from the get go? Get a milspec gun from a quality maker, and feed it quality ball ammo. It may not run perfect at first, or it may. Odds are it will. it likely won't shoot 2 inch groups, but it will shoot minute of man. If you want more, you have to bargin. Nearly everything done to "accurize" the 1911 also has the effect of reducing the reliability in less than perfect conditions.

If you want a gun that is "broken in" to the point of assured reliability, you can't call it a new gun. And if you expect a factory or custom shop to provide you with a gun like that, expect to pay for it.

The electronics industry has spoiled consumers, led them into thinking all products should work like electronics, either perfect function, or serious failure, right out of the box. Machined products of all kinds require a "break in" period, before reliable operation or consistant failure can be determined. And when you add in the tremendous amount of variables with guns and ammo, it is unrealistic to expect perfection. Be happy when you get it, people get it alot more often than they should, considering everything involved.
 

Sarge

New member
Driveout,

Start here and be sure to check the articles on each different 1911, in the menu on the left. You're going to notice that some of them had significant problems, and those problems would never have occured if the manufacturer had stuck to the pre-WWII US Ordnance Specs & blueprints for these guns. (The one solid improvement that has occured with this design is the almost universal adoption of the 'wadcutter throat' in new 1911 pistols- and they absolutely will feed reliably hollow-point ammunition with such a throat- but only when they are set up correctly in the first place.)

You'll also learn that nothing that was wrong, would have been corrected by running 500 rounds of ammo through them. It makes perfect sense to prove the reliability of a gun that works. It makes absolutely no sense to keep shooting a gun that does not work.

Over the past 15 years, firearms manufacturers have been quite successful in selling the 'break-in' period to the US shooting public. Unfortunately, many are now stump broke to the notion that continuing to shoot a defective firearm is somehow magically going to fix it. Nothing could be further from the truth.

This is all about making guns to sell, instead of making guns to fight wars with. Consider this long and hard before you buy a 1911 to bet your life on. Your best bet for getting a 1911 that meets your criteria is to just buy a 1991A1 Colt and be done with it. The quality of the barrel you get with the Colt will more than make up the difference of price. You'll also have a solid basis for anything you wish to add, after you've shot it for awhile.

Good luck, and happy "1911-ing". Don't forget basic safety and marksmanship fundamentals as you go.
 

robc

New member
Zero FTF or FTE? I've wondered about this in handguns, rifles and shotguns since forever. I've heard and read from about a million people about a gun that never had any kind of failure in over a gazillion rounds. You'd think after 30 some guns of my own, and the myriad of people I've gone shooting with enough to see all of their guns fail at least once, that I would have come across at least one firearm that never failed.
 

fsmitka

New member
I did not have very good luck with my Colt 1991A1. This of course is only one pistol, and it may have been an exception. First the extractor broke after a few hundred rounds, so I replace it with an after market one made
from solid bar steel, not the cast one that came with the Colt. Then the firing pin broke, so I replace it. I had occasional failure to feeds, with ball ammo. I had the feed ramp polished and this helped but not %100. I then replaced the plastic trigger and mainspring housing ( which I belived has been discontinued by Colt) because plastic may be alright on a Glock but not on a Colt, in my mind at least. One day I said: "Why in the heck do I put up with this thing when i have put so much money into it and it is still is not reliable? So I traded it in and bought a XD-45 which was, and still is to this day %100 reliable and accurate out of the box. This, again, is my own experience with only one Colt. FS
 

HiltonFarmer

New member
If I wanted a bare bones pistol, no fancy bells and whistles, without some nonsense 1500-round break-in period? Would you say that this pistol exists?

No.

But I will say you get what you pay for with diminishing results of course.

HiltonFarmer
 

Chindo18Z

New member
Lots of good points above.

Here's mine:

1. Stay as close to an original platform as is possible (i.e., 1911A1 "G.I."). GI style barrel bushing, standard recoil spring guide, barrel & link, slidestop, barstock extractor, and factory (MILSPEC) springs. Stick to all-steel parts and as close to John Browning's design as possible (except for sights).

2. Stick to a full-sized 5" model. It's the design that established the 1911 as a reliable .45 ACP workhorse.

3. My recommendations for what you seek (in order of price):

a. Used G.I. 1911A1 (spendy to downright unreasonable price ranges)
b. Colt 1911A1 Series 70 or 80 (pretty damn good pistols)
c. Norinco (hard to find these days)
d. Springfield "MILSPEC" (best NIB value for your dollars)
e. Sistema Colt 1927 (if you search, you can find one in good shape)
f. Auto Ordnance / Rock Island Armory (good entry level price & reliable)

With no out-of-box absolute guarantee possible for ANY semi-auto, I would be confident with any of these.

My first choice for out of box reliability would be a mechanically sound G.I. issue gun (understanding that prices have zoomed in recent years due to collectibility). The trick is to find one for less than a grand...

My second choice would be the Argentine Sistema (applying exactly the same inspection and function check criteria as I would apply to the G.I. gun). $400-$500

My third choice would be one of the Colt 1911A1s which has the added value of factory support, high resale value, and low depreciation (folks will always buy the pony...). $700-$850 used or new.

Good luck...
 

givo08

New member
Try a Colt series 80. They are usually higher quality than other manufacturers (but will cost you more $$) for a similar gun. They also have a dimpled barrel throat that lets them feed JHP's...Colt is the only one to use this barrel design. Learn how to tune a 1911 extractor yourself. It is extremely easy to learn and can save you a lot of headaches with FTF's and FTE's (both can be caused by an extractor either too tight or too loose).

I've heard bad things about Colt's in the 80's and 90's as far as QC, but I have heard nothing but great things about their recent manufactured products. Also their customer service has a great reputation.
 

RickB

New member
No such thing as 100% in a mechanical device, but a well-built 1911 is about as close as you can get. Based on what I see posted on the internet, I'd say there may actually be an inverse relationship of price and functional reliability! You would think a gun that is hand-built, and tested, priced at $1500-$3000, should be as good as it gets, but I don't know that the proportion of such guns that run without problems is any higher than that of a Springfield Mil-Spec, which I consider to be the starting point for 1911 pistols, if low price is an overriding factor. The major problem, is that you have no assurance that any "1911" on the market is actually built to M1911A1 specs. A lot of manufacturers have changed materials, changed dimensions, or pay little attention to whether parts conform to the specs they do have. When you buy a Glock, at least you know it is built to Glock specs; no such guarantee when you buy a "1911". Strange as it may seem, Colt is doing a pretty good job; maybe better than all the companies that have popped up in the last five years, that think innovation is what the 1911 needs, when in fact, looking back at original intent and original specs might be a better assurance that the gun will go BANG every time. Try a plain, blued, Colt M1991A1, which can be had from some internet retailers for less than $700. If it doesn't work right out of the box, Colt's customer service is very good.
 

markj

New member
What if I wanted a 1911 style pistol that I could be sure would not FTF, and always fire straight, right out of the box?.. If I wanted a bare bones pistol, no fancy bells and whistles, without some nonsense 1500-round break-in period? Would you say that this pistol exists?

I am very happy wit hthe GI springer I bought last year, not one FTF or any type of malfunction so far. I have a shot a couple thousand so far. I also bought a High Standard at the same time, same thing, not one problem. Both shoot very well and are under 500.00 in my area.

Come to think of it my ruger P95DC was the same, not one problem, its 9mm tho.
 

tomh1426

New member
My friend just got a brand new springfield GI and all day today it had trouble feeding , Winchesters I think.
I also thought the trigger sucked.
Maybe I was expecting to much , maybe Its the ammo or just a lemon but we were both dissapointed.
Im sure it will work out one way or another
 
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