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Varget powder
- Thread starter rebs
- Start date
Don Fischer
New member
Powder measure, scale and a trickler. I do throw ball powder into the case once I have the scale set. Same with flake powder. Once I think I have it right I throw ten loads and weight it, should come out awful close to ten time's the single load.
today I threw 50 charges of Varget using my RCBS 1500 chargemaster, then trickled each to exact weight on my A&D. A surprising came off the RCBS dead on, with only one or two overcharged by .02 or .03 gns and the most of the rest undercharged by a .02 or .03 gns. The lowest charge I saw was about .1 low. I loaded all 50 and seated bullets in about 30 - 35 minutes. So now my new favorite is throw a dispenser then trickle to weight.
The absolute best way would be the A&D and a autocharge for about $700 in my opinion
The absolute best way would be the A&D and a autocharge for about $700 in my opinion
Stats Shooter
New member
I load all my AR ammo, .223 and .308 on a Dillon 550 so I use Dillon's powder measure. I have tried Varget on the 550 and it meters ok, better than a drum type powder dispenser. But I have found Benchmark and obviously H335 meter better with 335 being pretty much exact each time so that's what I use now. Varget is a great powder but I just don't want to hand weigh AR ammo. Additionally, I regularly shoot my varmint AR out to 500 yards with ammo loaded on a Dillon with good results.
reynolds357
New member
From what I am hearing, how to throw Varget may be a worry of the past. No suppliers can get any. Its way down on my list of go to powders. If MRP disappeared, I would have a crisis.
reynolds357
New member
A dispenser does indeed measure powder. It measures it by volume. A scale measures it by weight. A balance measures it by mass.A powder dispenser doesn't measure anything. Use a scale(is a powder measure) and trickler. Either way, the type of powder doesn't matter.
Almost.....A dispenser does indeed measure powder. It measures it by volume. A scale measures it by weight. A balance measures it by mass.
A balance compares one mass to a standard reference mass.
reynolds357
New member
Thus measuring mass.
Most of the non digital powder "scales" are balances.
Most of the non digital powder "scales" are balances.
jetinteriorguy
New member
I throw the charge from my Lee deluxe perfect powder measure with a pre set drum, then I drop that into the pan on my RCBS 505 to check it. If it's too far off, like more than a tenth of a grain, I return it to the powder reservoir and throw again. This way it's still relatively fast by eliminating trickling up every time, but still suitably accurate. The Lee measure averages being off by more than I find acceptable about five percent of the time so I don't have to toss them back very often.
Hornady auto charge works well. slower than drum dispenser and trickle up in the overall charging of the case. The machine throws a few over charges that get dumped back in the hopper and the process starts over, seems to be the slow down. When it is having a good day, I am seating a bullet on a measured charge and inspecting the completed cartage while it is dispensing the next charge. Goes pretty fast when it is dialed in and not misbehaving.
If your range fodder load is good with +/- one tenth of a grain (scale tolerances) and tolerant of + two or three tenths of an overcharge, I guess you could toss the overcharges in a case and be good with it as blasting ammo. If your spending the time and money using Varget I would assume your after more than "Busting some caps" at the range.
If your range fodder load is good with +/- one tenth of a grain (scale tolerances) and tolerant of + two or three tenths of an overcharge, I guess you could toss the overcharges in a case and be good with it as blasting ammo. If your spending the time and money using Varget I would assume your after more than "Busting some caps" at the range.
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If you find a good sweet spot load, barring extreme temperature shifts, it should tolerate at least ±0.7% charge error without any issues showing up until you get well past 600 yards. In one instance, I had a .308 W load with the 155-grain Sierra Palma bullet over Brigadier 3032 that kept its group size anywhere within ±1.25 grains. You may be surprised to learn the tens of thousands of rounds of 1992 Palma match ammo were all loaded on two Dillon 1050s, and it did very well and was considered by many the best Palma Match ammo ever loaded up to that point in time. The lesson is, find a sweet spot load with a wide charge tolerance, then exact charge ceases to matter for the majority of practical purposes.
Stats Shooter
New member
If you find a good sweet spot load, barring extreme temperature shifts, it should tolerate at least ±0.7% charge error without any issues showing up until you get well past 600 yards. In one instance, I had a .308 W load with the 155-grain Sierra Palma bullet over Brigadier 3032 that kept its group size anywhere within ±1.25 grains. You may be surprised to learn the tens of thousands of rounds of 1992 Palma match ammo were all loaded on two Dillon 1050s, and it did very well and was considered by many the best Palma Match ammo ever loaded up to that point in time. The lesson is, find a sweet spot load with a wide charge tolerance, then exact charge ceases to matter for the majority of practical purposes.
I pretty much proved this to myself a few years back, i think i actually posted about it on here. It was with a .308, a 175 gr match king, and imr 4064. I threw something like 50 rounds, and hand weighed 50 rounds. I found no statistical difference in velocities, or group size despite my thrown powder being +/- 0.3 gr. In fact, i pulled apart some federal GMM .308 ammo before and found as much as .6 gr difference. ... which is now why i load it all on the dillon 550. In fact, in much of my experiments, i have found consistency in seating depth and crimp to have a greater impact than slight variability in powder charge, but thats a conversation for another thread
reynolds357
New member
A lot of bench rest shooters swear charges neasured by volume are more consistent than weighed charges.I pretty much proved this to myself a few years back, i think i actually posted about it on here. It was with a .308, a 175 gr match king, and imr 4064. I threw something like 50 rounds, and hand weighed 50 rounds. I found no statistical difference in velocities, or group size despite my thrown powder being +/- 0.3 gr. In fact, i pulled apart some federal GMM .308 ammo before and found as much as .6 gr difference. ... which is now why i load it all on the dillon 550. In fact, in much of my experiments, i have found consistency in seating depth and crimp to have a greater impact than slight variability in powder charge, but thats a conversation for another thread
I was one of 6 or 7 former USA Palma Team members who developed the 1992 Palma ammo load in early 1991. We used new unprepped cases, 210M primers, Sierra's first production run of 155 grain bullets and several different powders and charge weights. 20-shot test groups with our Palma rifles with metallic sights were shot at 1000 yards. We settled on 45.3 +/- .2 grains of IMR4895.You may be surprised to learn the tens of thousands of rounds of 1992 Palma match ammo were all loaded on two Dillon 1050s, and it did very well and was considered by many the best Palma Match ammo ever loaded up to that point in time.
30 some odd former Palma team people from countries around the world each shot near 200 rounds of it in a special match later that year. They reported about 1/2 MOA accuracy at 600 yards and about 3/4 MOA at 1000. I had the highest aggregate score comprising 3 times across the Palma course and a 600 and 1000 yard special match.
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I am leaning more and more toward believing group size is more affected by seating depth than anything else. Even in .22 LR I did a base to ogive test of a dozen or so brands from Walmart CCI Std Vel all the way up to $18 a box imports last year and the brands that performed best in my CZ's all had similar BTO measurements