(VA) In-home concealment, instant access

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BrokenPaw

New member
(VA) In-home concealment (w/ pics and video)

Skunkabilly's thread, here , about roommates and long gun storage, was well-timed.

Just yesterday, I finished building a concealment/instant access vault into my house. Until recently, I had no need for such a thing, being a guy living alone. But when my girlfriend and her two kids moved in, suddenly the rules changed. Suddenly I had a curious 7-year-old boy and a precocious 10-year-old girl in the house, all the time. Including when I'm not there.

No more AR-15 in Condition 2 behind all of my clothes in the closet. No more Mossberg loaded with 00 Buck lurking behind the couch. No more P32 hidden in my underwear drawer when I'm not wearing it.

But no less need for instant access. We all know what the chances are of getting police response in time to actually help in a home-defense situation, and living way down a dirt road in the back-end of Manassas, Virginia doesn't help with response times.

So I bought a 1500-pound electromagnetic lock, and an APC UPS, and some other bits and pieces, and I built a concealed chamber into a dead space near my living room. I will post pics and a video of it opening when I get a chance, and if people are interested. The space I had to work with was small, but I have room to store 7 long guns and several handguns, as well as ammo and other related stuff. There are automatic lights inside, so that when it opens, you can see what you're grabbing.

The thing opens by RF remote control, and I am installing two remote hardwire switches in a different, concealed location in the house, inside a locked panel: An emergency-open switch, in case the batteries in the remotes die; and a "babysitter" switch, so that when I'm not home, nothing can open the vault at all.

The kids know about it, and they know what's in it, but none of their friends have to know, and none of my friends have to know, except the ones who are also shooters. I can train the kids to be safe, but I can't assume anything about their friends.

The project started out mainly as a "Gee, can I...?" investigation, and it turned out so well, and has already proven to be so handy, I'm considering starting a side business (I'm a software engineer by day) installing these things custom in people's homes. Since I live in northern Virginia, I'd have to start with only doing the work within 50 miles or so.

Anyone have any thoughts? Good idea? Bad idea? Anyone interested in becoming a First Customer? :D

-BP
 
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MBG

New member
Interesting set up. I was house hunting earlier in the year, and kept my eyes open for potential hidy hole set ups like that. (I opted for the more traditional safe method.)

My first thought - don't put the TV by the electro magnet. :D

Outside of that, I do have a few questions. What is the time rating on the UPS to keep the electro magnet juiced? Does the lock default to lock open or closed on power failure from the UPS? Is the warning beep on the UPS turned off for when the power gets cut? Is the space fire proofed or hardened in any way, or just concealed?

The Washington Post did an article about the time the movie Panic Room came out, about contractors who did custom vaults and secure rooms in the DC area. You may want to do a search for it.

Good luck if you start the side venture.

Marty
 
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BrokenPaw

New member
Outside of that, I do have a few questions. What is the time rating on the UPS to keep the electro magnet juiced? Does the lock default to lock open or closed on power failure from the UPS? Is the warning beep on the UPS turned off for when the power gets cut? Is the space fire proofed or hardened in any way, or just concealed?
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The UPS has a rating of 650VA. The mag-lock itself draws 800mA at 12V (through a standard wall-wart adaptor), so I have at least several hours of backup.

The lock defaults to open, and the door is under spring tension, so when the lock disengages, the door opens (actually it moves directly outwards, like a filing-cabinet drawer) about 18 inches. This is based upon my requirements as I see them; I designed the thing to fail open, knowing that if I'm in a long-term but non-badguy power outage, I can open the door, disable the door actuators, and re-lock the thing. Then, when UPS power ultimately gives out, the door won't be locked, but everything will still be concealed. I have a design option in mind for making the door remain locked in a power-loss situation, and I'll probably tinker with that next.

Currently, the UPS is set to beep on line-level drop. This is while I'm testing the thing. Once I'm satisfied that everything works as planned, I will switch it to silent.

The space is not fireproofed or hardened. The space I used would be a real nightmare to do either of those things to, so I left them out, and chose to go with concealment for protection. The door itself is heavy particleboard, and provides enough protection that no one could get into the compartment without waking me, but it certainly wouldn't stop a burglar if I wasn't home and he knew where to look.

-BP
 
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Killians97

New member
Remodeling

I am currently re-modeling a bathroom in my Northern VA home and I came across some dead space when I was ripping down dry wall. Maybe it because I am weird, or because when I was a kid I actually visited Anne Franke's family hide-away from the Nazi's in Amsterdam, but my first thought was, "OH!! I could make this trap door and actually hide stuff in there." The way the walls were there was no way you could sfigure out this dead space was there unless you built the house.

Once I started to look at the logistics, and the fact that the wife would not approve of such trap door in our master bathroom, I nixed the idea.

Still, a concealed storage area, whether its for firearms, cash, extra DVD's of "the Matrix," or what have you, is a very cool idea! Please, if you dont mind, post some pictures.

Killians97
 
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DMK

New member
Check that UPS periodically by unplugging it.

I had a couple APCs go completely dead at work with no indication of a problem (even with diag software) except that when you unplug them (power loss), the outlets go dead instantly! It wasn't the batteries either, we replaced them and they never charged.
 
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Triad

New member
Could you design a vault with two compartments with seperate locking mechanisms? Perhaps it could have a compartment which would have the lock set to be open in case of a power loss. Then another space with a lock that would be closed. What I'm thinking is that with it done this way you could have a compartment for your carry and home defense guns,which you could always access, and another for valuables, which would always be locked. The second compartment could perhaps be concealed under a false floor for added security. The second space might not stop a thief from taking your stuff, but it would make it harder.
 
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BrokenPaw

New member
Could you design a vault with two compartments with seperate locking mechanisms?
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That'd be relatively simple. There are two main types of electronic security locks. Ones called "fail-safe" will automatically open if they lose power, to avoid trapping someone inside a locked compartment in the event of a power failure. Magnetic locks like the ones I've used in my vault are considered "fail-safe" locks. "Fail-secure" locks, like electric door strikes, will leave a compartment locked in the event of a power failure, and until power is restored, entry cannot be gained unless there is a secondary access device (like a physical key).

It would be quite simple to put a fail-safe device on one compartment, and a fail-secure device on the other. Or, you could just put a standard gun safe or lockbox inside the fail-safe compartment, and store things that don't need instant access inside that lockbox.

-BP
 
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FPrice

New member
BrokenPaw...

"But when my girlfriend and her two kids moved in, suddenly the rules changed. Suddenly I had a curious 7-year-old boy and a precocious 10-year-old girl in the house, all the time. Including when I'm not there."

Sounds like you found a good solution, but I am curious about one thing. Did you discuss at all your firearms situation with your gf before she moved in? Having experience with a VERY similar situation I am curious if she knew that you had loaded firearms and what her reaction(s) was/were. Having curious and precocious children suddenly appear and live in your house without planning and discussing how to handle the issue of access to firearms and how to train the children to not touch is an important issue.

Please don't get me wrong, I think your solution has a lot of merit, especially for long-term storage and security. I am just curious if you looked at and addressed the other considerations
 
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BrokenPaw

New member
Sounds like you found a good solution, but I am curious about one thing. Did you discuss at all your firearms situation with your gf before she moved in?
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She and I discussed firearms very early on in our relationship. And long before I ever met her kids.

She initially was a fence-sitter about guns in general. She didn't know anything about guns, but she also felt that not knowing about them wasn't an excuse for her to decide they were "bad", so she chose not to have an opinion about them at all. After we met and started dating, she found out that I carried pretty much all the time, and she asked why. We talked at length about the philosophy of self defense, and she has gone from being a fence-sitter to being a strong advocate for gun rights, self defense, and gun ownership. She has asked me to teach her kids about guns (which would have had to happen before they moved in, in any event; at the very least I would have insisted on teaching them and drilling them on the Four Rules and so forth). She wants them to learn to shoot, and how to safely handle firearms when they're old enough.

The reason for the concealed vault is less because her kids will be at the house, and more because her kids will likely be having friends over. As I said in a post above, I can train her kids, but I can't count on their friends' parents to have properly trained their own kids.

So mostly I wanted a place to put my guns and gun stuff, so that the neighbours and their kids need never know that I'm a shooter.

Additionally, my gf's ex-husband is familiar with guns (having been in the military for some time), so he's not concerned at the fact of my having guns where his kids are living, but she and I both felt that we should show him that I'm being responsible about his kids' safety, since they're living in my home.

-BP
 
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Herk

New member
Broken Paw,

I live in Manassas and will be finishing my basement soon and was contemplating on just such a set up. Mind if I take a look see one day? I'm also a Software Engineer during the day. I was thinking about starting my own company to get out of this crazy market. Anyway, let me know. You can email me at quintero_raul@hotmail.com.

Raul
 
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BrokenPaw

New member
Ok, I have some pics of the vault. Please forgive my webserver; it's only living on a 144k DSL connection.

Two views of the vault door, here and here .

With the door open .

And a one-megabyte mov file of the vault opening .

Enjoy!

-BP
 
L

Libertarian

New member
Very nicely done BrokenPaw. That is one sweet wall safe.

BTW, That was really responsible of you to not only insist on teaching the kids but to talk to the ex about it all first. I wish my ex had been as thoughtful of my feelings for my child's welfare.
 
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FPrice

New member
BrokenPaw....

Great video! It was worth waiting for the download.

I was glad to hear that you took the very responsible route of educating the gf and children. That is the type of action we need to continue to expand the number of firearms-educated and responsible shooters in the country.

Ya done good.
 
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David Park

New member
Very cool. :D

Do you keep your home defense gun there at night, or move it into the bedroom? The only reason I ask is because of the lights in the compartment. During a late-night break-in, they could give away the position of you and your guns. A separate switch for the lights might be a better idea.
 
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