Using a Lee FCD for sizing revolver brass?

[jepp2]

I'm trying to avoid the step that my carbide die leaves on revolver brass when resizing.

I "thought" I read somewhere where somebody used the Lee FCD full length, then just used the carbide die on the case top half for bullet tension.

Anybody doing this? It seems to make sense to me.

 

[colospgsAVID]

It sounds like you have the dies backwards in your idea. I don't think you can do anything full length with a Lee FCD. I assume you mean Lee Factory Crimp Die, correct? The Lee Factory Crimp Die is more or less a collet that you adjust to squeeze just the mouth of the case after it has been resized and a bullet seated. What step are you talking about that is to be left out? If you are using three die sets it goes like so: Decapping/resizing die, Case flaring die, bullet seating/crimping die, and if you want, impart a factory crimp, if one was not done with the seating die. If you tried to turn out the Lee Factory Crimp Die so it would go full length it would leave 4 horrendous grooves down the length of the case.

 

[Rusty W]

I've ran into problems with lead bullets and the FCD. The pistol die has a ring that sizes the case to spec. When you use lead bullets that are a little oversize and the brass case is a little thick, it will size the bullet back to factory spec. Not a good thing when you want a .432dia bullet. If you're talking about the little ring around the case near the rim, I wouldn't worry about it. If it chambers I'd shoot it. I don't know of a way to make it dissappear other than dropping the hammer on it.

 

[Lost Sheep]

If I read our post correctly...

I'm trying to avoid the step that my carbide die leaves on revolver brass when resizing.

I "thought" I read somewhere where somebody used the Lee FCD full length, then just used the carbide die on the case top half for bullet tension.

Anybody doing this? It seems to make sense to me.

What colospgsAVID and Rusty W said is true, but I think they misunderstand your original post. (Unless I misunderstand it myself.)

It sounds to me like the "step" to which you refer is the step up in diameter of the cartridge case near the case head and the body of the case (after sizing) that the sizing die leaves. Since the sizing die cannot reach all the way to the rim (because the case holder has to grip the rim somehow) there will be an unavoidable step wherever the sizing die stops.

The only way to avoid the step is to not size the body of the cartridge case at all. Leave it fireformed to the chamber. If your chamber has no step, the brass will have no step. If all the chambers of your revolver are not exactly the same size, you may have trouble chambering the cartridges unless you use the same cartridges in the same chambers all the time. Fortunately, most modern firearms manufacturers have quality controls that leave all the chambers close enough that this is not a problem.

So, what I read you describing is neck-sizing only.

Your problem is how to decap the primer without resizing the cartridge, then only resize the front end of the cartridge (which the FCD should do adequately) just enough.

There are a couple of different ways to do this. I don't know if anyone makes a "decap only" die for revolver cartridges, but the Lee Precision Load-All kit (the infamous "reload with a hammer" kit) has a decapping pin that will do it. Or you could get a sizing die one caliber larger than what you are shooting and the die body will not even touch the cartridge walls when you decap. Or, you could get a tool steel die (instead of Tungsten Carbide) and polish out the insides until you achieve a tapered sizing die that produces no "step" at the base of the cartridge.

I would not use the sizing die at all, but use the crimp die to do that job. If it adequately holds the bullet you are good as gold. If it doesn't hold the bullet well enough, then use the sizing die only insofar as is necessary to grip the bullet tightly.

In summary, it seems to me you are wanting to just neck-resize your brass to avoid the step inevitably left by full-length resizing. It can be done, but In my opinion, it does not give sufficient returns for the extra work. Either the extra accuracy (debatable if it can even be detected) or extended brass life (even at today's prices, if you double your brass life you don't gain that much).

Lost Sheep

Sorry about rambling on so long. If I had more time, my post would be shorter.

p.s.

Anybody doing this? It seems to make sense to me.

Riflemen do this. They have only one chamber all their brass is custom fireformed to and are generally chasing that last fraction of a minute of angle of accuracy. In handguns, it is hardly detectable. (My opinion)

 

[Ifishsum]

A universal de-capping die will work for pistol brass. I have used one with .45 colt brass, which I then basically neck-size by running them only 1/3 of the way through a carbide sizing die with the stem removed. Works fine and I don't get that hourglass shape on the brass. Not sure if it's really worth the trouble but I do it anyway.

 

[jepp2]

Lost Sheep, you correctly understood my post. Sorry to the other for not explaining it better.

I already use a universal decapping die as the first step in my reloading process, so primer removal is taken care of.

I am just trying to avoid the "step" near the base where the carbide ring stops when resizing the case.

I will measure the case neck after using the normal carbide die, and try some with the Lee Factory Crimp Die, and compare O.D.'s

 

[Hook686]

If you are not in any hurry to load, you might look at the Lyman 310 Tong Tool. It is a 'Nut cracker' style tool with dies that have a different thread than the standard reloading presses. I reloaded about 25-35 rounds per hour using this tool with a set of dies in 9mm, .357 magnum, .44 magnum and 6mm Remington. As i recall the tool only neck sizes the brass. There is a depriming die, a neck expanding die, a primer seating die and a bullet seating die. I used a Lee Hand Press with a FCD as a separate operation after the rounds were completely assembled using the 310 Tool.

Slower than a single stage press, but faster than the old Lee hammer technique, it does have a problem with auto loaders as mentioned above. The round, being neck sized only, only chambered in the handgun it was originally fired in. Not a problem since I only had 1 9mm pistol (however range brass was a no-no). I never had any problems with my multiple .357 magnums, or .44 magnums. The completed rounds chambered in any of the revolvers of the same caliber.

The 310 Tong Tool is a nice, compact litte reloading tool. I occasionally take it with me to the range, or to the mountains when I go hunting. A small reloading setup can fit in shoe box complete with bullets, powder and primers. It is just not a fast one.

The Lee FCD is a nice touch to this operation.

 

[medalguy]

Why are you concerned with the ring at the base? If it is just a cosmetic concern, let it go. You don't want to overwork the brass that close to the rim.

Another concern may be the "step" left when you have seated the bullet and there is a bulge where the bullet has pushed out the case at the bottom of the bullet. The Lee CARBIDE crimp die has a carbide ring at the bottom of the crimp die that will crimp the neck and then when the case is pulled down out of the die, the carbide ring resizes the neck of the case to make the whole thing smooth and straight. Nice touch to straight walled pistol cases.

 

[colospgsAVID]

Totally misunderstood this thread. Some damn good reading though now. I love this stuff!


Edit: No reason not to use a full length die to neck size at all. Just adjust the die farther out of the press. In my experience.

 

[jepp2]

My concern about the ring at the base is structural, I'm not concerned about cosmetics. Just as the case mouth will split due to the work hardening from flaring and crimping, I would like to minimize the potential to split near the base.

Neck splits don't worry me, a failure near the rim does. And I'm trying to insure maximum life from my brass.

I have never experienced a crack near the ring, but it just "looks" like it is a potential problem waiting to happen.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Right to be concerned, but no danger there

My concern about the ring at the base is structural, I'm not concerned about cosmetics. Just as the case mouth will split due to the work hardening from flaring and crimping, I would like to minimize the potential to split near the base.

Neck splits don't worry me, a failure near the rim does. And I'm trying to insure maximum life from my brass.

I have never experienced a crack near the ring, but it just "looks" like it is a potential problem waiting to happen.

Jepp2,

You are right about how it looks, but wrong about the danger. The part below the step is less likely to be brittle and separate than the rest of the cartridge, having never been cold-worked by a die. The part above the step has been worked more, but the mouth is where you will see brittleness make its presence known, as it is worked by the sizing die, then the expander/flarer, then the crimp. So the case mouth is worked three times for every firing and the body only once.

The wall thickness between the once-worked body of the case and the never-worked part below the transition is usually a little bit thicker than the body of the case, too. It may look odd from the outside, but the metal is likely stronger than the rest of the case body further up.

If the step is REALLY pronounced, your chambers may be oversized. If there is no step after firing and a significant step after sizing, then a gunsmith's examination of your revolver and cases and opinion might be warranted. Bring several fired (marked so you can identify which chamber they were fired in) and several sized cartridges with you. Working the brass repeatedly at that "step" location "ring" the cartridge case with a brittle zone at that point, but I think it unlikely unless the step is very pronounced.

If you feel bored some day, cut a case in half lengthways and measure the thickness at the web, at the "step", halfway up the case body and at the mouth. Educational, you will find, I think.

Or you could google "Cartridges of the world" or something like that and see images that may already be out there.

You have a good eye and an observant and a curious nature. Good for you. Keep the questions coming.

Lost Sheep

Remember, only believe half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you get from the internet. Even this post.

Do your own independent, confirming research when ANYONE gives you new facts on the web.

Also remember, even the idiotic stuff might have a kernel of truth buried in there somewhere.

disclaimer: If my advice seems over-obvious, remember that other readers of all experience levels are reading. I take great pains to be very specific and to prevent multiple (conflicting) or confusing interpretations.

P.S.
Unrelated, but in a similar location, in bottlenecked cartridges, this is the location that case-head separation is a concern. It is because the brass headspaces on the shoulder, which can be set back in the reloading process, resulting in the body of the brass stretching as the head is forced back to the breechface. Something a cartridge headspacing on the rim does not experience unless there is something wrong with the gun itself.