I shoot BP 45-70 ,45 Colt and 44cal Cap & Ball. I was at a small swap meet gun show and got a good deal on 3 pounds of GOEX BP. There was 1 can 2F , 1 can 3F and the 3rd can was 4F.. My question is can I use the 4F the same as I use the 2F and 3F ? In 45 Colt is use 27 grains by volume of either 2 or 3 F. In 45-70 I use 65 Grains of 2 or 3F with either a 405 or 500 grain bullet. If I use the 4F can I use the same loads or do I need to reduce the load ? If I need to reduce the load I ask by how much?
Using 4F in BP Cartridge
- Thread starter Howard31
- Start date
Short answer, no.
Long answer, 4Fg is for priming flintlocks. I don't think any manufacturer recommends or even admits it can be used for cartridges.
I personally would not use 4Fg in anything above .32 caliber, and certainly not a massive case like .45 Colt. Don't even think about .45-70.
If there is a way to substitute 4Fg in larger cartridges, it would include reducing the charge, no doubt. That would also mean using a filler to eliminate the air gap.
A full case of 4Fg in a .45 Colt would be a dangerously stout load.
Long answer, 4Fg is for priming flintlocks. I don't think any manufacturer recommends or even admits it can be used for cartridges.
I personally would not use 4Fg in anything above .32 caliber, and certainly not a massive case like .45 Colt. Don't even think about .45-70.
If there is a way to substitute 4Fg in larger cartridges, it would include reducing the charge, no doubt. That would also mean using a filler to eliminate the air gap.
A full case of 4Fg in a .45 Colt would be a dangerously stout load.
Modernhoglegs
New member
What Kappe Said
Just to expand on what Kappe said...
The problem is not the powder itself. Black powder is pretty much the same all over, and it generates a certain amount of pressure as it burns in an enclosed space.
The different granulations burn at different rates due to the size of the kernels. These different burn rates mean the pressure peaks at different times. This peak pressure with what strains the gun.
The Lyman Black Powder Handbook lists a number of loads using 4fg powder in percussion revolvers. It makes good reading if you are interested.
Another good resource is Sam Fadala's Blackpowder Loading Manual published by Gun Digest.
The only guns I would feel safe using 4fg in are a Ruger Old Army, or a .31 caliber revolver that is specifically designed for it. I definitely would not load it in a cartridge.
Just to expand on what Kappe said...
The problem is not the powder itself. Black powder is pretty much the same all over, and it generates a certain amount of pressure as it burns in an enclosed space.
The different granulations burn at different rates due to the size of the kernels. These different burn rates mean the pressure peaks at different times. This peak pressure with what strains the gun.
The Lyman Black Powder Handbook lists a number of loads using 4fg powder in percussion revolvers. It makes good reading if you are interested.
Another good resource is Sam Fadala's Blackpowder Loading Manual published by Gun Digest.
The only guns I would feel safe using 4fg in are a Ruger Old Army, or a .31 caliber revolver that is specifically designed for it. I definitely would not load it in a cartridge.
I have shot 4Fg loads in my Ruger Old Army. A full load really makes people turn around and look. I imagine a compressed load of 4Fg in a .44 or .357 magnum case would still yield lower pressures than smokeless magnum loads put out and any revolver designed for those rounds would be safe.
I think the original load in .22 rimfire rounds was 4Fg.
I think the original load in .22 rimfire rounds was 4Fg.
That's true but I think you would have to make that granulation comparison based on several commercial brands of black powder as well. Could be that Swiss 3fg burns at the same rate as Goex 4fg, or homemade 2f burns faster than Goex or Swiss 4fg. I don't think it's as simple as you describe.
IMHO, if you proof your gun with a stouter loaded 4fg cartridge first (taking the necessary precautions), and you don't see signs of a problem, then you are Ok. More than likely you won't have a problem, but, you are taking some chances that are pretty cheap to avoid.
One of these days, I'm going to have to see how 13 grains of 4F and lead bullets shoot out of a .22 Hornet.
I have experimented with 4F for light loads and short barrel guns. It's not like there is a huge difference between 3 and 4f, it's sort of the same increment as you see between 2 and 3f.
When I shoot my Phliadelphia Deringer, I find that 10 grains of 4f actually gives the round ball enough velocity to hurt something.
I also use 4F to blow out dry loaded balls. Take off the nipple and trickle in as much 4F as will fit and then put the nipple back on and shoot out the ball.
I have experimented with 4F for light loads and short barrel guns. It's not like there is a huge difference between 3 and 4f, it's sort of the same increment as you see between 2 and 3f.
When I shoot my Phliadelphia Deringer, I find that 10 grains of 4f actually gives the round ball enough velocity to hurt something.
I also use 4F to blow out dry loaded balls. Take off the nipple and trickle in as much 4F as will fit and then put the nipple back on and shoot out the ball.
4F in BP Cartridge
I thank you for the input . I felt the same as BLE. It's the same powder just different size granulations. I think there could be a slight difference as there is between 2F and 3F . If I can load 40 grains of 2F in a 45 Colt I doubt that 27 grs of 4f would hurt it.
My Lyman BP Handbook has no 4F load data in it.
I thank you for the input . I felt the same as BLE. It's the same powder just different size granulations. I think there could be a slight difference as there is between 2F and 3F . If I can load 40 grains of 2F in a 45 Colt I doubt that 27 grs of 4f would hurt it.
My Lyman BP Handbook has no 4F load data in it.
My Lyman Black Powder Handbook has 4f loads for the ROA and .44 Colt. The Colt was converted into a pressure gun to measure chamber pressures.
ROA 41 grains Goex FFFFg 1036 fps with .457 roundball
41 grains C&H FFFFg 1021 fps with .457 roundball
Open top Colt modified into a pressure gun.
37 grains Goex. .451 roundball
FFFFg 1032 fps 7940 LUP pressure.
FFFg 960 fps 7420 LUP pressure.
I'm pretty sure a 40 grain load of FFFFg in a .45 Colt won't wreck your Ruger Vaquero, probably less pressure than a factory smokeless load. It sure will get the attention of other shooters at a public range though.
ROA 41 grains Goex FFFFg 1036 fps with .457 roundball
41 grains C&H FFFFg 1021 fps with .457 roundball
Open top Colt modified into a pressure gun.
37 grains Goex. .451 roundball
FFFFg 1032 fps 7940 LUP pressure.
FFFg 960 fps 7420 LUP pressure.
I'm pretty sure a 40 grain load of FFFFg in a .45 Colt won't wreck your Ruger Vaquero, probably less pressure than a factory smokeless load. It sure will get the attention of other shooters at a public range though.