Used brass frame cap and ball or no?

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5whiskey

New member
Just that. I now have the BP revolver bug since seeing a couple in person. I am not willing to spend a bunch of money on this endeavor as a) I really want one just as much for display as to play with and b) I don't know if I'll really shoot BP that much. Something tells me I will enjoy it, and shoot a purchase at least semi-frequently. So, after looking I have found a local used Pietta 1851 Navy for about $150 with some extras (BP, some bullets, half can of caps, and a powder measure). It's a brass .44 model. I can buy that pistol new without the extras for $200 (as you know) from Cabelas. The extras aren't worth that much. I already have 3 pounds of Pyrodex, can get projectiles for almost nothing, and caps aren't super expensive (plus there aren't that many that come with it). So... I was thinking maybe if I could get this for $120 it might be a decent value.

Here comes my conundrum. I read that the brass frame pistols are subject to some frame stretch and issues if they've fired heavy loads frequently. This particular pistol in question has some obvious patina on the brass frame. I have not handled it in person, only seen a picture. The patina tells me this has been around at least a little while, and if it is fairly new it has likely been fired and not cleaned after. I'm also concerned about the types of loads put through it, and whether there might be some frame stretch.

So my question is this. Would patina on the brass frame turn you off? Even absent that would I be better off buying new given the unknowns of it's history (it's only $200 bucks new, after all)? Are there any tricks to checking this thing out if I decide to see it in person? Help please! This is outside of my expertise and I'm looking for good advice. It would be easier if I could drop $80 on the deal, definitely worth a roll of the dice there. I'm not even promised to get it down to $120 though. What would you do?
 
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rodwhaincamo

New member
For myself I’d not want to limit myself on what I could do. Even if all I would do is punch paper with as accurate of a load (seems typically 18-22 grns) I’d still want to be able to do what it’s capable of (35-40 grns and a ball). But then I also hunt and would punch paper with my typical accurate hunting load (33 grns of Olde E and a bullet).

Patina isn’t a bad thing on brass. Check end play (fore and aft movement on the cylinder). Also look at the recoil shield and see if there’s indentation from the back of the cylinder. This means heavier loads have been felrequeny used.

I’m not a fan of brass, especially not in a .44 but if lighter loads for paper punching are your thing there’s not much reason not to.
 
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Hawg

New member
I'm not a fan of brass either. I definitely wouldn't spend 150.00 on one. Like rod said look for an imprint of the cylinder ratchet on the recoil shield, also look for peening of the bolt notches which indicates a timing issue. Make sure it locks up tight on full cock and doesn't need a tiny bit of nudge to get it to lock up. That also is a timing issue. Look between the cylinder face and forcing cone. If there's more gap there than a credit card would fill then walk away from it.
 
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drobs

New member
Get a steel frame gun from the Cabela's sale. I like my 1860 Army revolvers.

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Nodak1858

New member
HA wouldn't you know it, I waited weeks for the 36cal 1851 to go on sale, ordered one last week when I got tired of waiting. Things coming in Fed Ex today and now it's 50 off. ain;t that how it goes.
 
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gwpercle

New member
My first revolver ( 1967) was a brass framed EMF 1851 Colt Navy replica from Italy . A fair amount of shooting and the spindle the cylinder turned on became so loose in the frame it wasn't funny and this was a 36 cal.
I wouldn't buy a used one unless I could carefully inspect it.. Brass Navies are more for looking , the steel spindle is screwed into the frame, over time the steel threads wallow out in the soft brass....I would never buy another. adesign like the 1858 Remington with it's solid top frame might do better in brass. But the honest truth, save your money on the used brass frame and look for a steel framed gun...even used the steel frame guns will be a better deal.
Gary
 
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drobs

New member
Nodak1858 said:
HA wouldn't you know it, I waited weeks for the 36cal 1851 to go on sale, ordered one last week when I got tired of waiting. Things coming in Fed Ex today and now it's 50 off. ain;t that how it goes.
Click to expand...


I know exactly what you mean. I too have been waiting for the exact same gun to go on sale. Spent my gun money this month on another AR15 pistol upper.
 
5

5whiskey

New member
Thanks sledman, i went to cabelas today and saw the '51 on sale for 150 bucks. I had to pick it up.

I know brass frames can and will have issues. This is honestly a test run. If I take to C&B revolvers I'll probably buy either a '58 Remington or a walker later on for heavier shooting. This is just to try it out, see if it sticks, and to display. That's another reason I actually kind of wanted a brass frame. Brass is pretty. It looks nice. And Even if I end up doing a lot of BP revolver shooting i'll probably upgrade rather quickly to something that can handle real loads, and mostly leave this in the display box I make for it.
 
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Model12Win

Moderator
Do what you want but I wouldn't buy a brass framed .44 even new, let alone used.

Wait for Cabelas to have a sale on steel framed Colts or Remys. You'll have a gun in top form that'll last for years for only a modest bit more.
 
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maillemaker

New member
HA wouldn't you know it, I waited weeks for the 36cal 1851 to go on sale, ordered one last week when I got tired of waiting. Things coming in Fed Ex today and now it's 50 off. ain;t that how it goes.
Click to expand...

If you bought it with a credit card, check and see if your credit card has price protection insurance. This is where if you buy something and then find it cheaper they will cut you a check for the difference. There is a time limit and usually an annual benefit cap. But $50 is well under it.

Steve
 
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Hellgate

New member
Don't shoot more than 20grains of FFFg BP or sub under a .454 round ball. If using 777 I would not exceed 15-17 grs. Use a filler of cornmeal, Cream of Wheat or a wads if the ball does not seat on the powder. As said before, check whether your new gun's cylinder is beginning to peen the thin raised recoil ring on the recoil shield. Do not use hard lead balls or you chance prying loose the cylinder pin from the frame while ramming it into the chamber or while shooting a hard ball down the barrel. Regardless of what happens to the gun, an excessive cylinder gap will be the result.
 
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J.G. Terry

New member
Brass Frame C&B revolver

Buying the low end gun is no way to save money. The most stout long lived of the replicas appears to be Remington 1858's or similar. Also, buying a second hand had C&B revolver is chancy due to Bubba having done a "trigger job." As a suggestion go for a better grade of replica firearm with top strap.
 
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CLYA

New member
I know that I'd never be content with just one design. It's why I have acquired quite a number of both the Remington and Colt replicas. They all have their place in history, and I'm always fascinated with history.
 
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