Unlicensed CC carry question

[chris in va]

I have a concern about the trend toward unlicensed concealed carry, maybe someone could shed some light.

Kentucky has reciprocity with over 30 other states, one reason being we have such a lengthy class detailing carry laws. There is a movement here to get 'Constitutional Carry' like AZ, ID, AK and VT, but I'm worried it would negate reciprocity if they do away with permits.

Thoughts?

 

[AirForceShooter]

it does negate it.
Most constitutional carry states still will issue a CCW under their old rules.
Then you get the 30 states back.

It's a catch 22

AFS

 

[Kreyzhorse]

I see your point Chris and it is certainly a valid one.

I would like to see Kentucky adopt the Constitutional carry method. I would guess, that much like CCW in general you'll see more states start to adopt CC and perhaps as a result see a national CCW law finally put in place.

However, in that intern, I would like to see Kentucky still issue a permit so that we don't lose the ability to carry in other states.

 

[markj]

I would like to see it treated like a drivers license, good in any state.

 

[brickeyee]

I would like to see it treated like a drivers license, good in any state.

Because all the states have agreed to accept them.

Like reciprocity for concealed permits, except that a lot of states do not agree.

 

[Usertag]

I live in Kentucky. And I saw on the news that there supposed to abolish that law. So in about a year, You should be able to carry a concealed weapon, Without a License.

 

[chris in va]

I see.

Now the states that have unlicensed carry and don't offer a permit (VT), how do they carry across state lines?

Also if the permit requirement is abolished how are people going to know about CC laws...ie, where you can/can't carry? Will we see many more arrests for people in say, bars or school functions (football games, meets etc)?

Just having a hard time understanding how it works.

 

[WeedWacker]

You might need an out of state CHP, perhaps the state you will be most frequenting. If Utah still has permits that would be another route if the state you will visit has reciprocity with out of state Utah permits.

 

[Don H]

Also if the permit requirement is abolished how are people going to know about CC laws...ie, where you can/can't carry?

Exactly the same way that people do now - awareness. Unless you live in a state that requires an annual class, how do you know about the changes in the laws since you took your class? How do people in open carry states know where they can and cannot carry?

Complying with the laws doesn't seem to be an issue in those states that allow permitless carry of some sort, any more than permitless carry resulted in rivers of blood running down the streets at every fender bender.

 

[Doublea A]

I actually like the fact that we have to take CCW qualifications before being issued a carry permit. Could you imagine people just jumping into cars driving without having to pass a driving test and obtaining a driving license?

With firearms there are no room for errors and the consequences of negligence and ignorance can be devastating. I for one wouldn't feel safe around a person who is carrying a firearm and is not proficient and educated with the firearm. Those of us who have taken new shooters to the range will attest to this.

We can be passionate about our rights to bear arms but also let's be rational about these rights as well. Not everybody deserves to be carry.. IMHO

 

[gc70]

I for one wouldn't feel safe around a person who is carrying a firearm and is not proficient and educated with the firearm.

Do you envision a lot of people pulling their concealed weapons out to show them off, play with them, or just point them at people? As long as a concealed weapon is holstered, the firearms proficiency of the carrier is essentially irrelevant.

 

[thrgunsmith]

look, millions of criminals already put our lives in danger by ignoring stupid unconstitutional laws

I for one wouldn't feel safe around a person who is carrying a firearm and is not proficient and educated with the firearm.

what dang law stops criminals?

I actually like the fact that we have to take CCW qualifications before being issued a carry permit. Could you imagine people just jumping into cars driving without having to pass a driving test and obtaining a driving license?

I do not have to imagine it, it is reality, millions of illegals do it, millions of citizens do it. People/criminals ignore laws-liberals solution is to pass yet more laws that simply add revenue to the gov't yet have zero affect on crime.

 

[Don H]

I actually like the fact that we have to take CCW qualifications before being issued a carry permit. Could you imagine people just jumping into cars driving without having to pass a driving test and obtaining a driving license?

With firearms there are no room for errors and the consequences of negligence and ignorance can be devastating. I for one wouldn't feel safe around a person who is carrying a firearm and is not proficient and educated with the firearm. Those of us who have taken new shooters to the range will attest to this.

OK, I see, it's not about facts, it's about feelings.

Is there any evidence that those people who CCW in a state that requires no permit or has less-restrictive permitting laws are demonstrably unsafer than those who are permitted by more restrictive states? If not, what is the purpose of greater restrictions other than giving some people a warm and fuzzy feeling about the whole thing?

 

[JerryM]

Sadly NM no longer recognizes Utah permits due to the lesser requirements to obtain a CC License.
Not sure what the future holds with regard to the current changes in laws in the various states.

Regards,
Jerry

 

[HorseSoldier]

Kentucky has reciprocity with over 30 other states, one reason being we have such a lengthy class detailing carry laws. There is a movement here to get 'Constitutional Carry' like AZ, ID, AK and VT, but I'm worried it would negate reciprocity if they do away with permits.

Thoughts?

Alaska will still issue you a CCW if you take the class, and pretty much only issues them for people who have reciprocity concerns for travel. I don't think the states we're reciprocal with has changed since they did away with permitting for carry in state, but might be wrong on that.

 

[Doublea A]

To clarify and answer some of questions above. I have no empirical evidence that people who carry in states that do not require a CCW qualifications are negligence with their firearms. Secondly I'm not in favor of some of the stupid laws on gun control which has no impact on preventing crime.

All that I was trying to say is that "Thy which we attain so easily we dear so cheap" Some times an individaual needs to pay a price in order to value that freedom they enjoy so easily and abuse some times. I'm all for gun rights, I have firearms, I carry almost daily, I have family members who had served in the Marine corp,I grew up with firearms in the house and I'm a freedom nutts. Our armed forces are known to be the best in the world because of training and technology at their disposal. So what I was trying to say is that it will be in the best interest of legally armed citizen to know the rules of engagement and some do acquire this knowledge during CCW qualification. If you disagree that's fine with me.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

All that I was trying to say is that "Thy which we attain so easily we dear so cheap"

Huh? Who are you quoting, and what does it mean?

... I'm all for gun rights, ... and I'm a freedom nutts.

With all due respect, you are clearly NOT all for gun rights, because you don't appear to understand that something for which a license or permit is required is a privilege, not a right. The 2nd Amendment states very clearly that the RIGHT of the People to keep and bear arms "shall not be infringed." Do you not understand that requiring a license before one can carry ("bear") arms IS an infringement, and therefore contrary to the explicit language of the Constitution?

So what I was trying to say is that it will be in the best interest of legally armed citizen to know the rules of engagement and some do acquire this knowledge during CCW qualification. If you disagree that's fine with me.

Sure, it's in their best interest. That doesn't mean it should be mandatory. Using the driver's license analogy, it is in the best interest of everyone who drives to take a one-day or three-day course in high-speed, pursuit, performance, and winter driving. But it's not required to get a driver's license, and I don't see you claiming that everyone should take such a class before being allowed to drive.

 

[MSgtUSMC]

I'm sick and tired of people who make a comparison of automobiles to guns. The Constitution does not guarantee the right to keep and drive an automobile but does guarantee the right to keep and bear arms. Any restrictions on automobiles (buy, test, drive, register, license, etc.) are irrelevant when refering to firearms. I'm reminded of those who make a comparison of restrictions on shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater to the restrictions on carrying a firearm saying they are both reasonable. If only we could apply the same logic to both situations. If I shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater and cause a panic, punish me. Don't tell me I must never use the word "Fire" in my everday conversations or must get a permit and pay a fee before I can use the word "Fire". Likewise, if I misuse a firearm. punish me. don't tell me I must get a permit and pay a fee before I can carry a firearm, either openly or concealed.

 

[won-a-glock]

Quite frankly I don't think I'd want some unlicensed CCW'ers wandering around my neighborhood / city without knowing what the general laws of CCW are. They're not overtly intuitive.

As noted earlier, AZ has both Licensed CCW and Unlicensed. Reciprocity is with the Licensed. If you look at what you can and cannot do with Licensed vs. Unlicensed CCW in AZ, it's pretty significant. I can't see any other state taking an AZ Unlicensed w/ reciprocity, otherwise it would create a loophole for those who don't have a clue as to what the law(s) may be.

WAG

 

[Don H]

Quite frankly I don't think I'd want some unlicensed CCW'ers wandering around my neighborhood / city without knowing what the general laws of CCW are. They're not overtly intuitive.

Has there been an issue, in states that don't require a permit to carry, with unjustified use of a CCW by people who can legally carry?