Universal clay and Unique

[bossman]

I see so many more options on bullet types with Unique that I see on Universal on Hodgdons website. Lyman's 49 has so many more loads with Unique than Universal. I know they're close so would I be in the ballpark useing .5 grains of Universal under what they say for Unique?

I got the Universal during the powder sortage and like it ok . I always hear that they are close so how close.

 

[hogcowboy]

I'm a chicken. If it isn't listed in a reloading manual, I don't try it. I figure the folks that put those manuals together have a lot more experience than I do.

 

[dwhite]

I compared a bunch of loads from various sources and found most charges with Universal use 85 to 90 percent as much powder as loads using Unique.

This works for me. You're mileage may vary. Use this info at your own risk.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[Shoney]

Close only counts in horse shoes, tiddly winks, and hand grenades.

With 135 gr JHP Universal - 7.5_____ Unique - 8.5
with 180 gr JHP Universal - 5.8_____ Unique - 6.4

If you should use the "general formula" to reduce Unique by 0.5 gr to get the Universal load, you have a dangerous overload in the 135. That qualifies as hand grenades in my thinking.

 

[Unclenick]

It would help immensely to know what cartridges are being discussed. The difference can go from almost none to a significant number depending on the case volume under the bullet and the peak pressure being achieved.

 

[AlaskaMike]

The reason you see so much more load data for Unique out there is because it's vastly more popular than Universal. If you look at what 100 new reloaders bought for handgun caliber reloading last year, at least 90 of them probably included a pound of Unique in that purchase.

You don't mention what caliber or bullet type/weight you're working with, so using .5 grain less of Universal than some given load data for Unique might be perfectly fine, or it could be potentially dangerous as Shoney indicates with his example.

To me I guess it just goes to show why interpolating data can get you into trouble.

 

[Unclenick]

I will point out that Unique is better known simply because it's been around for a century. Universal does meter better in most powder measures and does burn cleaner. But it's not quite the same stuff, and Unique still is more useful in some instances, getting you a bit more velocity for a given peak pressure.


Bossman,

State the caliber and bullet weight and type, and we can tell you what we've used.

 

[bossman]

.38 spl .158 bullet
.45 acp 230 bullet
.45 colt 255 bullet

All will be lead bullets. The ,38 spl will be for 3&4 inch barrels the 230acp 4.25 barrel and the 230,255 out of 45 colt 7.5 in barrel.

Like I said I'm new and have always heard the were close and Lyman's offers alot of bullet choices just not many with Universal. What would be a good powder for these loads? Maybe 9mm later on.

 

[Rifletom]

Opened a Speer manual[#13]
.38spl-158gr lead: Unique 4.0-4.7 Universal 4.2-4.6
.45acp-230 RNL: Unique 5.3-5.8 Universal 5.2-5.5

 

[Rifletom]

Sorry, forgot the Colt!
255gr lead Unique 7.7-8.5
Universal 7.2-8.0

 

[bossman]

Rifletom, Thanks for the info. I'm still just getting my feet wet . I know the loading info is sometimes quite different between the manuels .

 

[joneb]

Universal clay and Unique

So which is the faster burning powder ?

 

[oneounceload]

38:
158 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon Universal .358" 1.475" 3.5 756 9,600 CUP 4.5 974 16,700 CUP

45, 230gr

230 GR. LRN Hodgdon Universal .452" 1.200" 4.5 703 11,400 CUP 5.4 857 16,800 CUP
Those are from Hodgdon - the bolded numbers are start and max per them

As to burn rate, according to here: http://www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp

Unique is #57, Universal is #58 (#1 being the fastest powder)

 

[overkill0084]

The Lyman 49th manual is a good one, but they didn't overdo it with variety. You should see about getting more data. The Lee Modern reloading 2nd Edition is another good one for general data to work from. Between those two and the powder manufacturers data, plus when applicable, the bullet manufacturer's data, I can usually come up with good range to work from.
I hate being in a position that requires much guesswork when powder is concerned.

 

[Unclenick]

Jibjab,

You have to keep in mind that burn rate charts are very approximate. Larry Willis's chart has Universal at 17 and Unique at 20. I've found a chart saying Bullseye is the 3rd fastest powder made and another with it 15th fastest. Lot to lot, you can get variation in burn rate of up to about ±5% in some powders, so they can change order from one series of test lots to the next. Plus, the burn rate doesn't tell you about the shape of the burn curve. That can cause one powder to be slower up to a certain peak pressure, but faster above that pressure. John Feamster has a good example of IMR 4895 doing that with respect to IMR 4064 in the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide.

So, you check the load data and work loads up carefully. Same as before you knew what a burn rate chart was. The charts are good for a general idea of what chamberings a powder might be good in, but that's about it. A lot of them copy each others data because the manufacturers don't share it openly and nobody wants to spend money to test some other guy's product unless they are trying to copy it.

 

[joneb]

Thanks Nick,
Of the six or so burn rate charts I have, they seldom agree on powders that are close.

the burn rate doesn't tell you about the shape of the burn curve. That can cause one powder to be slower up to a certain peak pressure, but faster above that pressure.

Now that's good to know

So, you check the load data and work loads up carefully.

Ah, one of the golden rules of reloading.

 

[WESHOOT2]

proven

Universal works superbly in the three cartridges mentioned.