Underground range on private property
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rwilson452
New member
More than likely it will be a local issue. I would check with local zoning officials.
My guess is that if you contact your County Building Dept., they will tell you, "No, you can't do it." "No" is the default answer for most government employees today, even when they really should be saying, "I don't know." I think your first move should be to get a legal opinion from someone who knows your local & state laws. Find a knowledgeable attorney and arrange in advance to pay for no more than an hour of his time. The NRA might be able to direct you on this as well, or suggest an attorney for you. I just think you are wise to get your ducks lined up before approaching the bureaucrats. Good luck...
armoredman
New member
Years ago there was a house for sale on the north side of Tucson, AZ, and one of the selling points was a 50 yard underground range. Oh, to have a few million floating around!
Uncle Buck
New member
Although I am not a fan of telling 'untruths', I am a fan of not disclosing everything.
If in fact a building permit is required where you are located (We have no building/zoning requirements in the county I live in.), you start by telling them you want to add an extension onto your basement. The ventilation ports are for windows.
Once you have the foundation and walls poured and covered over with earth, you notify the building inspector that you are finished. Any other future modifications to the home would more than likely go unnoticed.
Just a thought...
If in fact a building permit is required where you are located (We have no building/zoning requirements in the county I live in.), you start by telling them you want to add an extension onto your basement. The ventilation ports are for windows.
Once you have the foundation and walls poured and covered over with earth, you notify the building inspector that you are finished. Any other future modifications to the home would more than likely go unnoticed.
Just a thought...
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Sure you can. Regulations vary, but your biggest issue will likely be compliance the ventilation systems. That alone will run into the tens of thousands.
http://targetworx.com/prvt_ranges
http://targetworx.com/prvt_ranges
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
I've often wondered the same thing. The major hurdle in NY, I assume other places too, would be the restrictions on shooting within "X" distance of dwellings. In NY it's 500 feet, and I've never heard that there are any qualifiers like "unless you're in an approved range" or some such thing.
So, probably, if you have neighbors very close by then you'd at least need to get them ALL to sign a variance allowing it.
A few years back, a friend of mine did just that and incorporated it as part of his "New" construction on a house. He even raised the ceiling to ten feet as he was also going to use it for archery and he stood about 6'-5". His house is in the country and there were no issues with his building permit. He might have sold it as an archery range. As noted, a big issue, is proper ventilation.
You got that right and holds true with just about all agencies.
Be Safe !!!
You got that right and holds true with just about all agencies.
Be Safe !!!
armoredman
New member
On the other hand, there is an outfit that builds and delivers to your property an 80 foot trailer that has a two position, fully equipped and ventilated indoor range, complete with motorized target carriers and soundproofing. Nifty idea, but not cheap. The wife wants one.
Doc Intrepid
New member
Listen to Uncle...
Aside from the ventilation issue, which is huge, going to the local authorities and explaining that you want a range in your basement might bring you to the interest of all sorts of agencies, including ones you may not have known existed.
You might hear, for example, from the EPA, who will be vastly interested in measured lead levels in air, water, and building materials. In fact, they might gently explain to you that you have incurred future liability should you try to sell a house with higher-than-allowable levels of lead; and that said house might require an environmental cleaning, which they will contract and supervise and you will pay for.
You might hear from the local Sheriff, who might label you a local whack job, and who may - depending on a number of factors - pass along your vitals to the Department of Homeland Security, who may send a few guys out to chat with you. Do you fly often on business? That could become more challenging.
I'm sure you've heard of Janet Reno and her infamous report on the Rise of Right Wing Extremism? Google "DHS report on right wing extremism", or click here for a primer:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5410658/DHS-Report-on-Right-Wing-Extremism
These guys LOVE to hear about folks who "stockpile" ammunition and build ranges in their basement. They get sweaty and start breathing heavily.
So by all means, do as you wish. KMO's advice to check with an attorney to identify your legal responsibilities is wise. Just realize, though, that you can be legally within your rights to build a range in your basement, and still earn yourself all sorts of unwanted interest by doing so (and attempting to obtain appropriate authorization from the local government to do so).
Much depends on the circumstances in your particular case, whether such an endeavor would be barely noticed, or would cause all sorts of excitement in your life.
Good luck with that!
Doc
You might want to read the above twice or more.Uncle Buck said:
Aside from the ventilation issue, which is huge, going to the local authorities and explaining that you want a range in your basement might bring you to the interest of all sorts of agencies, including ones you may not have known existed.
You might hear, for example, from the EPA, who will be vastly interested in measured lead levels in air, water, and building materials. In fact, they might gently explain to you that you have incurred future liability should you try to sell a house with higher-than-allowable levels of lead; and that said house might require an environmental cleaning, which they will contract and supervise and you will pay for.
You might hear from the local Sheriff, who might label you a local whack job, and who may - depending on a number of factors - pass along your vitals to the Department of Homeland Security, who may send a few guys out to chat with you. Do you fly often on business? That could become more challenging.
I'm sure you've heard of Janet Reno and her infamous report on the Rise of Right Wing Extremism? Google "DHS report on right wing extremism", or click here for a primer:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5410658/DHS-Report-on-Right-Wing-Extremism
These guys LOVE to hear about folks who "stockpile" ammunition and build ranges in their basement. They get sweaty and start breathing heavily.
So by all means, do as you wish. KMO's advice to check with an attorney to identify your legal responsibilities is wise. Just realize, though, that you can be legally within your rights to build a range in your basement, and still earn yourself all sorts of unwanted interest by doing so (and attempting to obtain appropriate authorization from the local government to do so).
Much depends on the circumstances in your particular case, whether such an endeavor would be barely noticed, or would cause all sorts of excitement in your life.
Good luck with that!
Doc
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
We have an impressive number of suggestions to ignore the law in this thread.
Did you know that ignoring the law is what we call "illegal".
Illegal is what criminals do.
Are you a criminal?
Find out what it takes to so it legally, or don't do it.
Did you know that ignoring the law is what we call "illegal".
Illegal is what criminals do.
Are you a criminal?
Find out what it takes to so it legally, or don't do it.
Double Naught Spy
New member
I could see the local city finding fault with discharging firearms within their city limits on a not approved/permitted range as being illegal. Somehow I doubt that by just having the facility that somehow it is made legal.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Pahoo said:
No, I can't. I don't know what the law is. Neither will the OP if he follows the "no one will know" advice. Ignoring a law doesn't make it go away. Maybe it's not illegal. Maybe it is. A law abiding citizen has a duty know the law to stay on the right side of it.
espnazi said:
Civil disobedience means violating a law PUBLICLY with the actual intent of drawing attention to an unfair law in hopes of getting it changed (Think Rosa Parks). Building a SECRET range under your house in violation of the law is no different than brewing methamphetamine for personal use.
Municipal regulation? Um, they are enforceable. They are local laws.
dragon55 said:
Making ammunition for personal use is almost never illegal. Discharging firearms in city limits, within certain distances of occupied buildings or indoors at all may be prohibited or regulated. If there is some local ordinance then you have a duty to follow it.
Shane Tuttle
Staff
Ignoring laws whether state, local or federal and discussions on circumventing said laws is forbidden on TFL. Any discussions on doing so is grounds for immediate termination of membership.
This is NOT what The Firing Line is about....PERIOD.
This is NOT what The Firing Line is about....PERIOD.
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isanchez2008
New member
Not sure where you are in relation to a city but a lot have ordinances that prohibit any discharge of a firearm in the city limits. If your really interested in it, ask a lawyer it it is allowed. If it is they can probably point you in the right direction for permits. Won't be cheap
Definately contact a lawyer before starting
And don't just pick one out of the yellow pages, if you can help it.
Your specific situation is critical. Your private property, underground, NOT open to the public, not run for profit, etc...that is one situation. Laws covering that I would expect to be different from laws covering a range open to the public.
Zoning is only one facet of the issue. DO you have neighbors within range to hear the (muffled) sounds of the shooting? Thats another issue. Many outdoor ranges have been forced to defend themselves against neighbors (who moved in later) who complain about the noise. If your range is there first, they have to put up with it. If they are there first, you have to get permission.
Lots of angles need to explored, "I"'s dotted and "T"s crossed, before you begin. Now it may turn out that in your specific case, there are no special regulations that apply, but you need to find that out first, from a competent reliable source, before building your range.
And don't just pick one out of the yellow pages, if you can help it.
Your specific situation is critical. Your private property, underground, NOT open to the public, not run for profit, etc...that is one situation. Laws covering that I would expect to be different from laws covering a range open to the public.
Zoning is only one facet of the issue. DO you have neighbors within range to hear the (muffled) sounds of the shooting? Thats another issue. Many outdoor ranges have been forced to defend themselves against neighbors (who moved in later) who complain about the noise. If your range is there first, they have to put up with it. If they are there first, you have to get permission.
Lots of angles need to explored, "I"'s dotted and "T"s crossed, before you begin. Now it may turn out that in your specific case, there are no special regulations that apply, but you need to find that out first, from a competent reliable source, before building your range.
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