TX: HB823, signed or no?

[Big Calhoun]

Hey you all. I'm new in Texas and have been anxiously familiarizing myself with all applicable firearm laws. In my studies, I found a bill (HB 823) introduced by Keel last year that ammended existing statutues to define 'travelling' and provide a presumption of innocence that a person was 'travelling' when keeping a concealed weapon in the car while doing so.

However, I don't see that it was signed or vetoed by Gov. Perry. Does anyone know the status of this? I want to be riding legal...can't go for my CHL until August (will then be in TX for 6 months persuant to CHL rules). Thanks!

 

[IZinterrogator]

It was signed by Governor Perry. It went into effect on September 1st, 2005.

 

[Eghad]

Except for the Harris County DA's interpretation of the law.....

 

[Doug.38PR]

How can Rosenthal (Harris Co. DA) give an order to his officers to violate the laws of the state of Texas?

A couple of guys at the local gun store say that the problem with the law is that it doesn't define what traveling is? But I always understood traveling to legally mean between at least 3 counties. Nevertheless, it's irrelevant what traveling is or is not, the fact is police are supposed to presume people innocent.

All he is doing is oppressing good people like you and me because we have a gun.

 

[Big Calhoun]

I would have to concur. Granted, I'm not a native here but as I have read it, only the State of Texas can effect any laws relating to gun ownership, possession, and use. So I would have to say that they are breaking the law over there in Harris Co.

Relative to what is 'travelling'...I'm reading it all like this:

Section 46.15 of the Texas Penal Code relates to the nonapplicabilty of sections 46.02 and 46.03 which cover unlawful carrying and places where weapons are prohibitied, respectively.

HB823 ammends 46.15 to include the follow conditions under this nonapplicability:

1. in a private motor vehicle
2. not engaged in criminal activity (other then class C misdemeanor)
3. Not prohibited from possesing a firearm
4. Not a member of a gang
5. Not carry firearm in plain view

Additionally, the subsection (i) begins by stating that a person is presumed to be travelleing as long as they meet the 5 points stated above. Plus sections 2.05 of the Texas Penal Code lay out the rules for presumption of innocence, which as I read it, if a person is encountered in a vehicle and falls into the criteria of 46.15(i), they must be presumed innocent.

IMO, the law is fairly tight. The only possible loophole that I can see (not knowing the entire Texas Penal Code) is that a LEO could simply say, "how did I know he wasn't on his way to rob a bank?"...but still, I think that would be covered by criteria #2 in that you would need to be actively engaged in criminal activity for that presumption to be removed.

Thank God I live in Dallas...cross Harris County off my list for potential home building.

 

[Eghad]

You could still be arrested....based on the presumtions of the officer.

court is where the presumptions of innocence come into play.....

The prosecution would have to prove that you were in violation of 1 of the five elements. You would have all the aggravation of going to court and getting a lawyer.

Plus this guy doesnt come up for reelection till 2008

 

[Big Calhoun]

^^^ Good point. I guess in my mind, I can't see why LEOs would illegally enforce a false perception of the law while pretty much knowing that it's not (read: shoudln't) going to make it out of the D.A.s office. IMO, the DA would be a fool to attempt to prosecute.

I still plan on riding with my firearm concealed in the car, in accordance with the law, and will risk arrest. I don't know many people here nor do I know the 'history' of various areas. I'm not going to risk my safety or that of my wifes b/c some DA has a Coke bottle in his butt.

 

[Doug.38PR]

heck, the arrestee could sue the county for false arrest!!!

 

[Eghad]

I wouldnt worry about it unless you work/travel/live in Harris County. Even with that I would imagine most oficers would use thier discretion to comply with the new state law.

 

[Gary Conner]

Check out your District Arttorney candidates on this!

The District Attorney interprets that statute in each county, and it probably the single most important elected official in your County.

He alone decides if charges will be filed. I know a case in one county in Texas where the DA indicted a guy for having a concealed handgun in a car, however, was violating no law.

If you get a DA that is anti gun (and guess what, there are lots of lawyers that do not think the great unwashed out here should have guns) you can wind up breaking a law going deer hunting, since you invaribly will pass within a thousand feet of a school if you travel from one town to another.

So you want to check out your DA candidates and find out their 2nd Amendment stance. Because nobody can force a DA to seek and indictment.
Only the DA in your county decides.

That is why I have been out each day of our County early voting primary, (like an idiot) standing out there in the sun, holding up campaign signs and talking to people, and asking them to vote for this person who knows the Constitution has been relegated to nothingness by other lawyers.

Write an email to each candidate asking "What is your position on guns?" and vote for the one with the strongest direct answer supporting the 2nd Amendment. (Many of them will hem haw around, but the guy I am supporting answered directly, and strongly in support of Concealed Carry and believed the mere requirement of a license was an Unconstitutional la, since the Constitution clearly sets forth that the right "shall not be infringed" and he feels the license fee is an infringement)

 

[Doug.38PR]

but the guy I am supporting answered directly, and strongly in support of Concealed Carry and believed the mere requirement of a license was an Unconstitutional la, since the Constitution clearly sets forth that the right "shall not be infringed" and he feels the license fee is an infringement

Mr. Conner,
What county do you live in?!!! I like this guy!!! We need more like him...IN EVERY PUBLIC POSITION!!!

 

[Greybeard]

Quote: "will then be in TX for 6 months persuant to CHL rules). "

Welcome to Tejas!

TX CHL instuctor here. The 6 months waiting period was abolished by Legislative changes in 2003. Legal gobbeldy gook may make it confusing, but the wait to apply is no longer required.

HB 823 discussed extensively at www.texaschlforum.com since it went into effect Sept. 1, 2005. A couple of "test cases" pending. Bottom line is that CHL is the cleanest way to avoid being one.

 

[TX_RGR]

The law makers made the mistake of making the law as ambiguous as before. The citizen is assumed to be "traveling" but this is still only a defense to prosecution, meaning you can still be busted and booked, spend some time in jail, make bail, and make a court appearance or three. They should have eliminated the whole "traveling" thing altogether and revised the law to state that carrying a firearm in your vehicle is legal. Period. That would eliminate the loophole that enables the cops to haul you in.

 

[CelticMP]

not just Harris Co.

I wouldnt worry about it unless you work/travel/live in Harris County.

Central Tx too Bell, Coryell and Mclennan Counties all have stated they will continue to arrest for carrying a firearm in your vehicle. Makes you wonder if laws are supposed to be enforced by law enforcement, or can they just pick and choose as sort of a "selective enforcement" of laws THEY deem need enforcing. Or is the DA's laying down a personal agenda to try to oppose Austin's passing of a 'in their eyes' bad law.

 

[almark]

A big "howdy!" and welcome to Texas, BC! Thanks for posting this thread, too... I had no idea the law was still this convoluted! Some friends and I were going on vacation and we would be spending a day in Houston. We were planning on bringing a gun for SD, but now I'm not so sure!
Thanks much for the info, guys!