Turkish Mausers-pre 1899

[XLT]

http://www.tapco.com/product_information.asp?number=RIF4701&back=yes&dept=28&last=

Anyone know much about these? Are they pretty much wall hangers?

Antiques appeal to me as almost as much as firearms, so I was thinking of getting one. But it would be nice if it were capable of safe operation.

Also, anyone know if, when these were reworked to 8mm, if the bore diameter was supposed to have been .323 or .318?
Thanks,

XLT

 

[Oldphart]

I have one. It's a great rifle. When I got it there were doomsayers telling me that it would blow up in my face or the bolt would blow back through my eye and I was ... concerned. So I did some research and found no (that's zero, nada, none) recorded cases of such a thing happening.
Some mausers do have excessive headspace which can allow a case to separate and blow hot gas back into your left eye, but a simple headspace gauge will tell you is this is the case. Some Spanish made 1893 Mausers have problems with heat-treating which lead to headspace problems, but if the receiver is made in Germany (and the Turks were) there should be no problem.
That said, the ammunition you use will make a difference. I tried Turkish surplus and found that it was reasonably accurate but hard on my shoulder. The Yugoslavian stuff was pretty good too but the best surplus I could find was the Romanian. I don't even shoot that now, having gone to handloads for accuracy reasons.
As with all old guns, there may be individual problems that can't be covered with a generic answer. Your rifle is probably good to go... but maybe not. Be careful.

 

[XLT]

Thanks for the info...from what you've said I gather that you haven't been too concerned with bullet dimension, have you had any concerns with the .318 vs. .323?

 

[dfaugh]

I have one that I sporterized...Action and barrel (except for muzzle) in good shape. I shortened and re-crowned the barrel, mounted it is a stock that i got at a garage sale ($8-!!!), drilled, tapped and mounted scope. This one was rebarreled (I think almost all were, but check it anyway. Actually, it seems to me that these started life as a dfferent caliber, and were converted later by the Turks to 8x57, circa WWII) to .323. I've fired a variety of commercial ammo, and a variety of medium, but not real hot, handloads through it, with no problems. I did try some of the "hot" Turkish surplus, and the bolt was "sticky", but other surplus ammo was OK (but innacurate).

In short, if they're in good condition, you shouldn't have any problems, with reasonable loads, but check the bore size to be safe.

 

[Oldphart]

It would be a very rare Turk if it weren't chambered for the 8X57 (.323 dia) round.
As I understand it, the Turks contracted with Mauser for a 'whole bunch of' rifles of the 1893 design. They also realized that newer designs were in the works so they stipulated that if/when the 1898 model became available, the remainder of the contract would be made up with the newer models.
Still, they had a lot of the '93s on hand and what with herding Armenians around and using corrosive ammo to control stragglers, they decided they needed a supply of new barrels. When the '98s came out, those barrels didn't fit (large-ring receiver<>small-ring barrel), so the barrels sat in a warehouse for a few years.
Then they (the Turks) made a deal with Mauser to make receivers in Turkey. Since they had a warehouse full of barrels, they made their receivers on the large-ring pattern but with the small-ring threads. This was the origin of the Kiri Kale (K. Kale) receiver.
Still, I don't believe Turkey ever used the .318 dia barrel.

 

[XLT]

Thanks for the help, uh...Mr. Phart, sir?

so in your estimation, assuming the gun is otherwise safe to fire, the 8mm surplus ammunition for sale is safe to use?

 

[Oldphart]

I believe you can use almost any surplus 8X57 ammo in the M-93. Obviously, the uber-hot Turkish stuff will probably wear the receiver out (almost as fast as it wears out your shoulder) but the Romanian ammo is almost as cheap and a whole lot easier on the shooter.
I don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but all the surplus ammo has corrosive priners. After shooting a batch of it you need to clean the bore with something that will disolve the salts deposited in there. Some people use Windex-- some use plain hot water and still others use a mixture of water and household ammonia. Whatever you decide on, do it fairly quickly-- within a couple of hours, and then clean conventionally after that.