Darker Loaf
New member
I am an AK-47 variant owner with an Arsenal SAM7SF (milled), and I love to part and modify my guns, nigh as a sickness.
I removed the stock plastic (though quality Arsenal) handguards and put a Midwest Industries extended 9" full-picatinny rail, which extends beyond the gas-tube and original handguard. I bought the rail so I could attach what I would (which is generally nothing) but mostly so I could grip the AK as far forward as possible and have no plastic to burn if I chose to do mag dumps or fast-firing. The Midwest rail is fairly light and it definitely achieved those goals: I've noticed no appreciable heat buildup upon a string of 30-round mag dumps.
However, being a Troy Alpha rail aficionado (I have an AR-15 variant and a 10/22 both with Troy Alpha rail handguards), I bought a Troy AK rail and gas block to see if they would please me in the same ways as their AR-variant brothers did. I love Troy Alpha rails for their low profile, and at least in an AR-15, they do a good job at running cool. And without firing the SAM7SF, the Troy AK rails feel great. They are slightly longer but basically the same profile and theoretically allow the same forward grip of the Midwest extended rail... or so I thought. However, after three 30-round mag dumps, the Troy rail became fairly uncomfortable, and when Venom1956 handed the gun off to me and I grabbed it around the rail I burned my hand enough to get blisters!
The reason this was possible, I believe is because the Troy AK rail is closer to the barrel and lower profile than the chunky Midwest extended rail. Further, the spot I grabbed the rail at allowed me to pass my finger through the handguard directly on the the sling mount which touches the barrel. Since the AK sling mount was ground-down to accept the Midwest rail, which has no cut in the handguard to accept the AK-factory handguard sling-mount, I was essentially touching the barrel.
I realize that the Troy AK rail may be totally fine, because the rail itself mostly only became uncomfortable not burning hot, and it was essentially the barrel itself that I touched. But the problem is that the Troy AK rail is so low-profile AR-handguard-like that you want to grab your hand around it like an AR--even above the gas block with a thumb-over grip. Fortunately, that blocks the iron sights, so you shouldn't be doing that!
The thing is that the Midwest rail is chunky--as in wide--and fairly sharp. It is not the sleek AR hand guard that I love. But, at the end of the day, it ran cool after rapid firing and is solid, tank-like aluminum. So, my problem is that I really like the Troy AK handguard, but I am thinking that I should use the Midwest extended rail which I don't like as much. Further complicating matters is that I am sending my gun in tomorrow to the Firing Line AK-custom shop in OK for work. What I am going to do is send both rails into the shop, and hopefully TFL on the internets can help me decide which combination of rails to put on. The reason this matters is that I am going to cerakote my SAM7SF and fix some issues (which I've posted about before on the Firing Line), and I want to cerakote in FDE the "right" rails for me.
I'm pretty sure either way, I'll keep the Troy gas tube instead of the Arsenal-factory or the Midwest one. The Midwest upper handguard covers the stock gas tube, and makes the factory gas tube more difficult to remove (think using an allen wrench) than simply popping it out by hand. The Troy gas tube / rail simply replaces the factory gas tube and seems to actually protect your hand against heat fairly well, while adding little-to-no weight.
My problem question to TFL is: should I cerakote the Troy handguard or the Midwest industries one?
AND also, I would like to know if you think that part of the reason that I was able to burn myself with the Troy handguard is that the sling mount was ground-down. I partly believe that because the sling mount was flat to the barrel that it was significantly hotter than a regular factory sling mount. Would a standard forward sling mount--as I would like to be installed there anyway with the Troy AK handguard--protect my hand from hitting the barrel? Would putting some Troy "squids" in the handguard help with heat issues? Or could putting a short section of picatinny rail through the Alpha Troy rail mounts and a Magpul AFG do the trick? Thoughts? Advice welcome!
OH! Also, do standard AK users burn their hands if they touch their forward sling mount after long firing strings? If "yes," then I actually think the chunkiness and lack of sling mount might favor the Midwest rail.
Bottom-line: I want to find reasons to keep the Troy handguard, but am leaning to the Midwest for just raw functionality.
I removed the stock plastic (though quality Arsenal) handguards and put a Midwest Industries extended 9" full-picatinny rail, which extends beyond the gas-tube and original handguard. I bought the rail so I could attach what I would (which is generally nothing) but mostly so I could grip the AK as far forward as possible and have no plastic to burn if I chose to do mag dumps or fast-firing. The Midwest rail is fairly light and it definitely achieved those goals: I've noticed no appreciable heat buildup upon a string of 30-round mag dumps.
However, being a Troy Alpha rail aficionado (I have an AR-15 variant and a 10/22 both with Troy Alpha rail handguards), I bought a Troy AK rail and gas block to see if they would please me in the same ways as their AR-variant brothers did. I love Troy Alpha rails for their low profile, and at least in an AR-15, they do a good job at running cool. And without firing the SAM7SF, the Troy AK rails feel great. They are slightly longer but basically the same profile and theoretically allow the same forward grip of the Midwest extended rail... or so I thought. However, after three 30-round mag dumps, the Troy rail became fairly uncomfortable, and when Venom1956 handed the gun off to me and I grabbed it around the rail I burned my hand enough to get blisters!
The reason this was possible, I believe is because the Troy AK rail is closer to the barrel and lower profile than the chunky Midwest extended rail. Further, the spot I grabbed the rail at allowed me to pass my finger through the handguard directly on the the sling mount which touches the barrel. Since the AK sling mount was ground-down to accept the Midwest rail, which has no cut in the handguard to accept the AK-factory handguard sling-mount, I was essentially touching the barrel.I realize that the Troy AK rail may be totally fine, because the rail itself mostly only became uncomfortable not burning hot, and it was essentially the barrel itself that I touched. But the problem is that the Troy AK rail is so low-profile AR-handguard-like that you want to grab your hand around it like an AR--even above the gas block with a thumb-over grip. Fortunately, that blocks the iron sights, so you shouldn't be doing that!
The thing is that the Midwest rail is chunky--as in wide--and fairly sharp. It is not the sleek AR hand guard that I love. But, at the end of the day, it ran cool after rapid firing and is solid, tank-like aluminum. So, my problem is that I really like the Troy AK handguard, but I am thinking that I should use the Midwest extended rail which I don't like as much. Further complicating matters is that I am sending my gun in tomorrow to the Firing Line AK-custom shop in OK for work. What I am going to do is send both rails into the shop, and hopefully TFL on the internets can help me decide which combination of rails to put on. The reason this matters is that I am going to cerakote my SAM7SF and fix some issues (which I've posted about before on the Firing Line), and I want to cerakote in FDE the "right" rails for me.
I'm pretty sure either way, I'll keep the Troy gas tube instead of the Arsenal-factory or the Midwest one. The Midwest upper handguard covers the stock gas tube, and makes the factory gas tube more difficult to remove (think using an allen wrench) than simply popping it out by hand. The Troy gas tube / rail simply replaces the factory gas tube and seems to actually protect your hand against heat fairly well, while adding little-to-no weight.
My problem question to TFL is: should I cerakote the Troy handguard or the Midwest industries one?
AND also, I would like to know if you think that part of the reason that I was able to burn myself with the Troy handguard is that the sling mount was ground-down. I partly believe that because the sling mount was flat to the barrel that it was significantly hotter than a regular factory sling mount. Would a standard forward sling mount--as I would like to be installed there anyway with the Troy AK handguard--protect my hand from hitting the barrel? Would putting some Troy "squids" in the handguard help with heat issues? Or could putting a short section of picatinny rail through the Alpha Troy rail mounts and a Magpul AFG do the trick? Thoughts? Advice welcome!
OH! Also, do standard AK users burn their hands if they touch their forward sling mount after long firing strings? If "yes," then I actually think the chunkiness and lack of sling mount might favor the Midwest rail.
Bottom-line: I want to find reasons to keep the Troy handguard, but am leaning to the Midwest for just raw functionality.
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