Trijicon to remove verses.

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Buzzcook

New member
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme..._bible_inscriptions_on_military_r.php?ref=fpb
Trijicon, the company that produces the military rifle scopes with Biblical inscriptions, will end the decades-old practice and provide the military with modification kits to remove the markings, ABC is reporting.
Click to expand...

I know this is a touchy subject for some.

In America the bottom line is the bottom line and pretty much everything else is secondary.
If you want to effect how a gun maker produces their product the best way to do so is through their pocket book. If you can get a companies largest client to demand changes in products, you're well on the way to changing the products that company offers to the general public.

For many firearms companies the largest clients are various government agencies. While we generally think that only corporate lobbyists can effect what the government purchases; there is no reason that the same activist infrastructure used to fight gun control can't also be used to effect what the government buys.

For example, many people don't like the locks on S&W revolvers. If a moderate sized government agency were to order revolvers from S&W with the stipulation that there would be no locks on them; the odds would be good that the same option would soon be avilable to the public.

The recent Supreme Court ruling pretty much lets organizations give truck loads of money to politicians.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...lary-movie-filmmakers-campaign-money-dispute/
Who's to say some of that money can't be used to get the Metropolis police force to buy a few thousand no-lock S&W Model 686
 
A

A/C Guy

New member
Once again, some whining idiot cries that the mere sight of a Bible verse somehow is causing him some sort of duress and the company is forced to change. If you don't like the verse inscription, don't look at it.

Sad, the the inscription was only the abbreviation of the book and chapter. You would have to go and get a Bible and actually READ it to know what the meaning was of the inscription.

I bet that idiot has a near stroke every time he sneezes and someone says "Bless you."
Or heaven forbid they say "God Bless You."

I bet anyone a thousand dollars that same atheist idiot tells people to 'go to h--l' or says 'G-- dmn it' when he is mad. Any takers on my bet? Atheists are the world biggest hypocrites and whiners.
 
Last edited:
D

Doc Intrepid

New member
Actually, I suspect the issue here is neither profit, christianity, or appeasing complaints from the public at large.

It's more a matter of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

1. When you buy a product you rely on the seller to disclose whatever details the product includes. When you find out after you bought it that the product had issues that you were not aware of, expecially issues that may work to your detriment, this can lead to uninteded consequences. Like you purchasing a toy for your child, only to discover later that it was produced in China and was painted with toxic paint. It still amuses your child, but the drawbacks you discovered later reduce the toy's utility.

2. In this case, the sitation facing the US military in Afghanistan is volatile, and is a war for hearts and minds - in effect, a war over public relations (PR). "Success" as defined by Gen. Petreaus depends heavily on trust being developed at different levels between the Karzai Administration and US forces. Suddenly discovering that weapons provided by US forces to the Karzai Administration contain coded bible verses on them plays into both social and cultural fears and mistrust between Afghans and US military, and undermines the very bonds that the US is attempting to forge to bring the war to an acceptable conclusion. It leads to unintended consequences.

It's really as simple as that.

Trijicon should have ensured that US military logisticians understood the products had coded bible verses on them before the products were provided to Muslim indigenous troops. Nothing good is going to come of that.

It has nothing to do with products made for sale in the US, or Trijicon's "rights", or anything other than the effect this issue may have on military objectives in a war zone.

Notice, however, that this is big news on Al Jezeera....
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/01/201012110471912336.html
 
B

Buzzcook

New member
A/c Guy while I appreciate that you have strong feeling regarding this, the point of my post was not about the religious aspects.

If this was about religion we could just say the dollar won and leave it at that.
What I'd lie to see is input on the implications this has for activism.
 
B

Buzzcook

New member
Chris in VA. Trijicon has its corporate headquarters in Michigan. It could be Israeli owned, but the division that deals with the US government is in the US.

But the economics of the situation are the same whether a supplier is foreign or domestic.
 
B

Buzzcook

New member
TRguy, do you want this thread locked?


Isn't there anyone who can think of a product that they would like to have altered, which governments buy?
 
A

azredhawk44

Moderator
Isn't there anyone who can think of a product that they would like to have altered, which governments buy?
Click to expand...

Well, I think the ATF should get issued these as standard sidearms:

BackwardsGun.jpg
 
1

1911rocks

New member
1st Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

When does PC trump or rights? Leave the verses. Don't buy the scope if you don't like it. If your in the Military don't use them if your offended, there's always BUIS or AimPoint. Personally, I can forego a great deal of gentility to kill the BG. IMO
 
M

mapsjanhere

New member
I wonder if TRguy would feel the same if it turned out to be coded Koran verses...
Personally I think it was incredibly stupid to put the codes on it. Nothing to do if you think it's good or bad for the US, you're selling professional tools, and professionals don't take kindly to having stuff like that crammed down their throat. If you think your political/religious/moral message is an integral part of your product, make it a part of the purchase specification. For me, you send me a quote for professional services or equipment with "Free Tibet, long live the KKK, Allah Akbar or Born again!" on it, it gets circular filed, period.
 
B

Balog

New member
I wonder if they'll try to ban chaplains praying before formations too? I'd think being required to stand with head bowed while a Christian minister offers thanks, praise, and requests to the God of the Bible would be far more offensive to the apparently delicate sensibilities of my fellow servicemen than having a referrence that one could (if you so desire) look up in the Bible. :rolleyes:
 
B

Buzzcook

New member
azredhawk44, So that's what you want to see trickle down to the consumer market?



Ok, I admit that this thread is a big fail.
 
S

Skans

Active member
Private company - government contract, it just boils down to capitalism for me. Ultimately Eotech is in the business of selling firearm sights and making money. I can't blame it for putting profit over religion in this instance.

Also, the government has the right to ask for a product in accordance with its specifications - if it doesn't want the product with a religious reference on it, it has the right to ask for it that way.

Now, if Eotech was in the business of printing bibles and the government wanted bibles delivered to its chaplins with certain verses deleted or revised - that would be a different story! But, I just don't see any issue here whatsoever. Basically the bigger dog gets what he wants and Eotech realized that its not the bigger dog.

Now, I don't have any problem with the bible reference being on their sights, and I don't think that they should be made to replace ones that they've already sold.
 
C

CortJestir

New member
To be clear Skans, we're talking about Trijicon here, not EOtech. That said, I agree with you and the OP - purely a business decision, although the company (as I understand it) has a religious corporate culture.

As for these "blemished" sights, I hope they offer them at a steep discount to civilians. It's probably the only way I could afford one. And it could have phrases from the Satanic Verses on it for all I care. Those ACOGs are NICE! :D
 
W

whippoorwill

New member
First of all... the verses weren't "coded" by Triticon. They were in clear sight as part of the serial number. It was Da Vinci who apparently coded things!

Second, don't blame this on the soldiers. As far as I've heard, they weren't the one's making the complaints.

...will provide the military with modification kits to remove the markings...
Click to expand...

I believe it's called white out, or paint if the former isn't permamnet enough.
 
M

MTT TL

New member
Jesus Rifles? Well ok, but....

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=171_1255137638

True muslim With 2 Foot Cooking Knife Inscribed With Qur'an Verses...

CLOSE [X]
An Al Qaeda fanatic who trains fellow Europeans to fight in Afghanistan has given a stark warning to our troops - by posing with a 2ft-long beheading knife.

The bearded terrorist, identified as ‘Abu Askar the German’, belongs to one of Osama Bin Laden’s ‘foreign legions’ fighting alongside the Taliban.

In a new terror video posted online he vows to 'achieve a victory for Islam' usi More..ng the huge blade, which is inscribed with an Arabic passage from the Quran.

In pictures designed to scare British and American soldiers is also seen sitting with an AK47 rifle.

Terrorism expert and author Chris Dobson told The Sun: ‘The bloodthirsty threat of Abu Askar the German and his giant cleaver is plain - anyone who opposes us will lose their heads.

‘Fanatical Islamic Jihadists have a record of beheading captives and boasting about it to cause fear among their enemies.

‘Abu Askar and his knife are undoubtedly part of the “war of the mind” the Jihadists are waging against the West.

‘But they also reflect a growing confidence, especially among home-grown terrorists, that the West is becoming vulnerable.’

A message with the video says Askar belongs to a terror group closely allied to al-Qaeda.

It is known to hide out in the lawless Pakistan border region and cross into Afghanistan to launch attacks against British and US forces.

Askar boasted that the terrorists have attracted recruits from all over Europe as well as from Russia and China.

Britain’s Army commander, General Sir David Richards, has sounded the alarm over any possibility of losing the war in Afghanistan to men like Askar.

He said: ‘Failure would have a catalytic effect on militant Islam because the message would be that al-Qaeda has defeated the most powerful alliance in the world.’
Click to expand...
 
T

Tom2

New member
Not a verse, a sort of abbreviation of a number of a verse that most if not nearly everyone would miss if not pointed out to them. I do not think that our "middle eastern allies" could probably even read the code or make a bit of sense of it, they read largely arabic characters if literate at all, probably. Chalk one up for a news show that pretty much no one watches. I do not. I saw the headline on the web. Next contrived crisis will be that the crosshairs form a cross and are used to shoot bad guys! The mil. will have to change to all dot reticles.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top