Trail Boss powder shortage

[condor bravo]

There seems to be more and more references to Trail Boss powder within the forum, suggesting it is becoming more popular, but supply just can't keep up with demand. Around here the gun shows and gun shops haven't seen TB in months (of course we like to blame the big box stores back east but maybe that isn't so). Part of the reason for the shortage is probably that TB is one of a kind powder, there's nothing else like it. When you're out of TB, you're just plain out, and nothing else will substitute. For instance when you are of 4895 you can use 4064 or similar; or out of 4350 use 4831 or similar. So what can you do? Twice now I have had to resort to ordering five pounds from Reloading Unlimited. They about always have it, but if not today, surely tomorrow. Yes, it may hurt some to pay their inflated prices along with shipping and hazmat fee. But keep in mind that five pounds of TB equates to nine FULL cans of the standard one pound cans of standard powders (most or all standard powders do not fill the one pound can). By volume, quart to quart, as well as weight, pound to pound, even when using max loads for rifle cartridges, it is safe to say that TB will go twice as far as standard powders. So looking at it that way, the price to pay from RU may not seem as bad. The usual one pound can only holds nine ounces, complete to the top of the can. That is due to its texture. A case filled with 50 grains of 4350 for instances may only hold 25 grains of TB (although not intended to be an exact comparison).

 

[Geezerbiker]

I never could see a reason to use TB powder. I make all my reduced loads with either Unique or Red Dot.

I double and triple check that I haven't double charged my cases. However in 30 years of making reduced plinking rounds for my rifles, I've never accidentally double charged a case.

Tony

 

[A pause for the COZ]

Oh nooo Trail Boss is much much better than any thing else out there.
You will never get fast speeds from it, but I call it my magic powder.
Esp if your doing load development for a rifle with a new cast bullet.
If your pulling your hair out trying to find a load for that rifle/ bullet combo.
If that bullet can be made to shoot accurately out of that rifle. Trail Boss will do it.
I have one particular two groove Mk4 303 Brit. Shoots jacketed great.
But I have spent the better part of three years trying to find a suitable cast load. Nothing I have tried gets me inside 6 inches at 100 yards.
.303 bore and .317 grooves.

Trail Boss pops them all inside of two inches at 100 yards. Every bullet I have tried. They dont go fast, 1000 fps max so far.

Trail Boss is unique. It slaps the butt of the bullet with very high pressure for a real short impulse and then continues to burn as a normal fast burning pistol powder. ( some thing like that) That high pressure gets the cast bullets to fill the grooves better than just about any thing else.

Its the Magic elixir, But it will also drive you nuts. Because you want your load to shoot that accurate but go faster.

 

[condor bravo]

Tony:

Well with TB powder you can put your powder scale away and forget about weighing once you are familiar with the powder, and this might take all of two loading sessions loading it. Here is Hodgdon's instructions for using it: first fill a case with TB to the level where the bullet will be when seated (doesn't matter what type or weight bullet--have never heard anyone contradict that statement), then weigh and back down to 70% as a start load and work up to the base of the bullet from there. It probably won't take long that the max load (to the base of the bullet) is decided to be the desirable way to go. Remember we are talking about very wimpish here but reduce if you insist. Then after a while, when switching from rifle caliber to caliber with TB, it just becomes a matter of eyeballing the depth of the powder charge and adjusting your powder measure accordingly. No more use for the powder scale and no danger certainly with double charges, your bench will be covered with powder. Like Mike Venturino has said, you can't get enough in a case to be an overcharge. Has anyone out there ever heard of overcharging with TB and doing damage?

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Keep an eye on PowderValley. Out of stock right now but they have some of the best stock most of the time and their prices are excellent.

I hear a lot of folks arguing that TB is expensive... $13 for 9oz at PowderValley. That's $23.11/lb. Most powders are at least that expensive, though a few are as low as $20 or so.... but typical charge weights are two or even three times higher. In other words, TB is cheaper than many powders.

It's an absolute blast with rifle cartridges. Especially .204 Ruger and similar very small bores. Actually, it's the exact opposite of a "blast". My son's cork gun is literally louder.

 

[condor bravo]

Brian:

I've checked Powder Valley again for TB, and again shown as out of stock. But notice that TB is not listed under Hodgdon but only under IMR. But I don't think TB has been available as IMR for some time now so that listing may no longer be valid. Yes the $13 price per 9 ounce container is what the price used to be. The $101 for five pound price is certainly good if you could get it but they seem to be saying no back order. So I guess I'm saying, if you need it, there is a place to get it and it won't take long to do so.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Hm... I don't when the transition to a Hodgdon name happened. I bought some last year that was labeled IMR and the load data on the Hodgdon/IMR site still shows it as IMR Trail Boss. In any case, I would guess that the exact listing details are inconsequential, i.e. they won't bother changing them for a while if at all.

If you can find it (and feel adventurous) Vihtavouri Tin Star (N32C) serves the same purpose as Trail Boss and folks do use it for reduced rifle loads but it is not supported officially for the purpose and you won't find any "real" data.

Unfortunately, Tin Star does tend to be genuinely expensive, at least $35+/lb.

 

[FrankenMauser]

Keep an eye on PowderValley. Out of stock right now but they have some of the best stock most of the time and their prices are excellent.

Powder valley had the 9 ounce cans in stock on Wednesday.
And, prior to that, they had some in stock in early November.

My local Sportsman's Warehouse had some two weeks ago. (They may still. I haven't been back.)

It's around. It's shipping.
It's just selling out quickly.

Unfortunately, Tin Star does tend to be genuinely expensive, at least $35+/lb.

Per pound, Trail Boss is roughly the same price - often more. Remember, Trail Boss is a very bulky powder. The "one pound" canisters only contain 9 ounces, and the "8 pound" jugs only contain 5 lbs. ...because they can't fit any more than that in the containers.

 

[mineralman55]

Competition For Reduced Loads

I too like TB, but I've been experimenting with Ramshot's Competition for a long while now. It is also designed for reduced loads, and is just as soft shooting as TB. I've used it in 45acp, .357mag and .44mag. Accuracy was excellent once I found the right load. I'm not trying to disuade anyone from using TB, but if you need a substitute, try Competition.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I don't use Trail Boss for rifles, only handguns, and generally only in .38 Special, .32-20 (not entirely satisfactory), and .44 Special, where it is INCREDIBLY satisfactory.

It's right behind WW 231 as my favorite powder.

I may try it out in .30-30 if I ever get around to loading for my Savage 219.

 

[FrankenMauser]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I may try it out in .30-30 if I ever get around to loading for my Savage 219.

Best load ever, for .30-30: 95% case fill with Trail Boss under a .312" 60 gr Hornady XTP.

 

[jmorris]

I use trailboss for some subsonic rifle loads cause there is a lot of data for it.

I think I loaded some 38 rounds with it once but it doesn't meter the best and there is only 9oz in a can not 16oz like other powders.

 

[condor bravo]

Using an RCBS Competition measure for rifle loading, I find that Trail Boss meters like water. If there is any granule shearing, it certainly cannot be felt. Surprising that it doesn't meter well for handgun charges.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"I think I loaded some 38 rounds with it once but it doesn't meter the best and there is only 9oz in a can not 16oz like other powders."

My experience with my Lee Auto Disk Pro and my RCBS Uniflow is that it meters extremely well, FAR better than one would expect from such a huge, disk shaped powder, and miles ahead of how Unique meters.

 

[mikejonestkd]

In my experience with the Lee PPM and the pro auto disk dispensers, Trail Boss meters very well, much better than 700X, Unique, or 800X. Its one of my favorite powders for 41 mag, 44 special, 44 mag, and 45 colt.

I managed to pick up 10 pounds about a month ago, and should be set for a while. Its out there, but sell out quickly.

 

[HankC1]

Around here the gun shows and gun shops haven't seen TB in months

I went to my favorite LGS twice in the past couple months and I always see Trail Boss on the shelf! I finally bought 2 packs to try it out last trip 2 weeks ago. I intend to shoot reduced load 308 out of my bolt guns, probably coated cast bullets. Is it an accurate powder for rifle such as 308?

 

[condor bravo]

HankC1:

Yes certainly good with the .308. If you have been keeping up with the posts, you are aware that you will not be getting the same velocity. Refer to my post #4 to determine where you want to start--at the 70% level or immediately jump to max--the base of the bullet. I can about guarantee that if you start at 70% today, you will jump to max tomorrow. No doubt many of us using TB also use cast bullets for economical shooting. Let me know if you might be interested in sources for cast rifle bullets. There are not as many sources as there are for handgun bullets. When selecting bullets, gas checked or non-gas checked will be a consideration.

 

[Fox84]

I saw TB for the first time at the last Richmond Va show. I bought 3 9oz jars. I loaded subsonic 300 blackout 110 and 125 gr bullets. It's quiet and accurate. It fills the case alot better than lil gun and 1680.
Four dealers had it. Wish I had bought more. This show was 3 weeks ago.

 

[HankC1]

I loaded subsonic 300 blackout 110 and 125 gr bullets. It's quiet and accurate. It fills the case alot better than lil gun and 1680.

AR? Does it cycle? or bolt gun?

 

[condor bravo]

Fox84 & HankC1:

Four dealers had it, wow!! The next thing you are going to tell me is that you got it for the original $13 price per 9 ounce can; really know how to hurt us guys out west. Yes, the finger of blame just has to be pointed at the big box, and even at the little box, gun shops back east.