Traditional ammo ban

reinert

New member
I got this off of Shooters Forum a couple of days ago. Anyone else commented on this on TFL yet? For hunters and fishermen alike, this is a big deal. NSSF has called a big foul on it. This affects all federal lands, nationwide, the way it looks. I don't know if a new F&W director has been appointed yet or not. Hopefully the new administration person will address this promptly, and properly. I also understand that the date of this "order 219" is near two weeks old now, and maybe some things have been addressed already... or not.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/20/u...ectors-parting-shot-on-traditional-ammunition
 

MarkCO

New member
AFAIK, it has not been rolled back and the article appears to be accurate.

I saw a few other postings on it with substantially the same info. But, if no action is taken, it goes away on July 31, 2018 and is useless since the bans would not be effective until 2022.
 

ShootistPRS

New member
Buzz,
It is a ban on ammunition and components that use lead. That effectively bans the use of most factory ammunition on most federal lands (except for law enforcement officers). Whether or not an area is actually impacted by the use of lead bullets or sinkers is never really studied. they simply take information that was developed for other species in other areas and apply that information to another area.
People eat game that has been shot with lead ammo and don't have problems with lead exposure because lead in its metallic form can't get into the blood stream. The same is true for animals. The lead has to undergo decomposition and those salts have to be ingested in order to cause lead poisoning. Any metallic lead is just passed through the digestive tract and excreted. This whole accumulation of laws is bad science at its worst.
 

LogicMan

New member
They say it also bans all handguns in California on federal lands essentially because California law requires handguns only use lead ammunition, as non-lead ammo is considered "armor-piercing."
 

jmr40

New member
Read the document. It authorizes a study to be done in order to recommend a ban at a future date.

From the directive.

The purpose of this Order is to establish procedures and a timeline for expanding the use of nontoxic ammunition and fishing tackle

It is the Service’s policy to:



a. Require the use of nontoxic ammunition and fishing tackle to the fullest extent practicable for all activities on Service lands, waters, and facilities by January 2022,

Nothing new here, they've been trying to do this since the 1980's. Not going anywhere on a federal level.
 

reinert

New member
Nothing new here...

No, there's nothing new here, but the lead issue (IMO) is something that should at least be followed year to year, season to season, by hunters and fishermen in their home state, or wherever they might want to hunt or fish while abroad. It's not going to go away, ever, and that's again, IMO.

Last year, here in my home state of Wyoming, there was a one word change in the 2016 big game regulations that had me concerned enough to where I contacted the G&F officials in my district, and that word was LEAD. They assured me that if I wanted to use my muzzle-loader with the patched round lead ball, or my 45/70 B.P.C.R. using cast bullets, I was quite o.k. to use them. No problem. They also said the wordage should be straightened out in this year's (2017) regs.

Up to, and including the 2015 big game hunting regulations, and regarding legal muzzle-loading firearms and caliber restrictions, the regs. stated that, in pursuing big game or trophy animals: "Any center-fire firearm used to hunt big or trophy game animals shall FIRE A LEAD (caps mine) or expanding point bullet. This statement pretty much covered the use of lead projectiles in any firearm following minimum calibers and c.o.a.l requirements. Quite straightforward enough.

In the 2016 Wyoming big game regulations the wordage changed to read: "Any center-fire firearm or muzzle-loading firearm used to hunt big or trophy game animals shall fire an expanding point bullet."

With all the controversy over the lead issues these days, to me, this is a rather big, one word change in Wyoming hunting laws regarding legal, and if you will, traditional projectiles. This is a state-wide, current Wyoming regulations deal, and would cover not only state and fed. lands, but private lands as well.

Last year, I emailed the Cheyenne office and inquired about this, and it was two weeks later that I got a response. The email simply told me to contact my local game warden to discuss the matter. I called our warden (a good guy, whose good at his job) and he told me I needed to contact Cheyenne. When I told him the deal, there was a bit of silence on his end of the phone. He then said, "Really?" He was as surprised at that response as I was. He also assured me it was o.k. to hunt with my M.L. or B.P.C.R. using my traditional ammo, as far as he was concerned.

Hopefully this is just an oversight with the regs. book, and will be corrected so there's no legal problems with "traditional ammo." I hope to attend a local meeting in March to discuss the matter further with the G&F official in charge of the meeting.

Also, the DEFINTION of a muzzle-loading firearm in both the 2015 and 2016 regulation book states that it's; "...a muzzle-loading rifle or muzzle-loading handgun of a at least .40 caliber and using A LEAD (caps mine) or expanding point bullet using a charge of at least fifty (50) grains of black powder or its equivalent." But the REGULATION in the 2016 booklet omits the word LEAD in the official rule.

Again, up until and including the regs of 2015, there were no questions regarding the word LEAD for ammo use, at least by me. If there's any Wyoming hunters or fishermen who can add to this, or correct me in any way, I'd sure appreciate the comments.
 

reinert

New member
Nothing new here...except this

Last evening, I attended the local open house meeting held in Buffalo, WY, hosted by the Wyoming Game and Fish Dept. These annual gatherings are for public input prior to the upcoming hunting/fishing seasons.

I visited with the district Game Warden from Sheridan, WY, about the lead issue I posted here back in early February, and my concerns are still valid ones regarding the word "lead" in the Wyoming big game hunting regulations. The newest thing I found out was that for 2017, the word "lead" will be omitted from the definition of muzzle-loading firearm, as well as in the regulations regarding legal projectiles. Bottom line, they're getting the lead out, and that's not a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

I use traditional muzzle-loading rifles for hunting big game (if I want to on a certain hunt), and that means using a patched, lead, round ball. Up until 2016, I had no questions on projectile usage in any firearm I own and use for hunting.

If you're a Wyoming resident that likes to hunt with traditional firearms using cast lead bullets, you may want to write a letter to the Wyoming G&F dept. to voice your concern. If you want to click on the website below, click open the potential revised (as of 3/14/17) regs. and scroll down to the DEFINITION of muzzle-loading firearms. You'll see that the definition has omitted the word "lead" in it. I'll wager that's how the official regulations book for 2017 will read concerning definitions, and regulations; the word "lead" will be gone from the record. That concerns me. I gave a written letter to the Sheridan Game Warden I visited with to submit to the office in Cheyenne. He said he understood where I was coming from, and that I certainly wasn't the only one he talked to on this issue.


http://wgfd.wyo.gov/Regulations
 

Armed_Chicagoan

New member
I think it's more likely the Wyoming omission of "lead" from its regulations is just an acknowledgement that there are other types of ammunition now and those are legal to use for hunting also.
 

Metal god

New member
The lead has to undergo decomposition and those salts have to be ingested in order to cause lead poisoning. Any metallic lead is just passed through the digestive tract and excreted. This whole accumulation of laws is bad science at its worst.

Can you elaborate a little more on that ? Maybe post a link with data showing that to be true . Is lead based paint decomposition . I was under the impression kids that eat lead based paint from the crib or door jams had elevated levels of lead ? Do stomach acids not break down any of the lead ? I know it wont completely dissolve a split shot but I'd think your stomach acid would dissolve a small amount which would allow your body to absorb trace amounts . What about other animals that have 10x stronger stomach acids ?? Then of course how many get tested for lead after eating the game they just brought home from the hunt . A can't imagine there's a lot of real world data on that . Just saying your not dead yet does not mean you've never had elevated levels of lead in your system .

Just thinking out loud here because I really don't know the answers .
 
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