My reading here today got me thinking. (dangerous business I know for a 33 year old art director who has never been in anyone's army or police force to comment on such esoteric topics as firepower and tactical penetration and calling in the arty) But i digress...
Several topics (old faves) have popped up again like the scout rifle, the effectiveness of the 223, who said what to whom and when and rethinking the very definition of "if" in physics or geometry.
Well.. being that this is a discussion forum i feel the need to get on my soapbox. (donning nomex coveralls)
On the Elk and the 223... this is a really really bad Idea, even with a head shot. Elk live in the woods.. deep dark timber where its cold and wet and stuff freezes like oily actions and your eyelashes. Could you use one? Sure if you were paoching.. the 223 is not legal in any state I'm aware of for game as large as elk. i hunt elk in Colorado elk are big tough hombres. You owe it to that elk to make a swift, sure kill. Use enough gun.
On Col. Cooper.. you love him, you hate him, you agree and disagree. I for one (even if you buy his "concept") cannot fathom paying 2500 dollars for a bolt action rifle designed to do what a 30-30 can do. Medium sized game light handling plus defense up to 300 yards.. soulds like a Marlin 336 to me.. or a scoped short action savage. I also love his anecdotal "the scout shooters SEEMED to fair better than..." kind of writing. If someone gave me this rifle i would sell it for a number of other proven guns.
On guerilla tactics.. I for one WOULD like to know what Che had to say about firepower in the bush. The only pic I've seen of him armed was with an M-2 carbine witha 30 shot clip (he was on horseback). I'd also point out that russian snipers were winning the battle of stalingrad with a rifle you can now buy for 100 dollars. i'd say training tactics and motivation had a LOT to do with thier sucesses, as well as the steel of thier guns. Sun Tzu said.. know thy enemy.. as did Patton and Rommel. Americans aren't the only 'experts" out there.. I'm curious to see more opinions from around the globe.
On what IF scenarios and geometry and fuzzy math.. there are too many what ifs. To quote Dennis Hopper.. "you can't land on a fraction". MANY of these cannot be devined without sort of having been there or done that. I've seen 180 grain bullets explode on impact on a 150 pound antelope scoring NO penetration but an amazing instant kill.. I've seen wounded game take multiple hits with awe insprirng powerful rifles and keep going. I've seen experts and novices alike make mistakes. None of these 'sciences" is exact when Mr. Murphy is in the house and the weather is bad. practice when its dark and cold and yucky and shoot a lot.. no matter what your sport you'll do better.
On training, character and shooting...Magic bullets do not exist but trained men do. there are guys I've met who will SCARE you with how good they are.. some you'd want to sit down to dinner with and some you would not. Col. Cooper looks like someones' grandpa, Ted Nugent looks like .. well Ted Nugent.. both guys are spokesmen for our rights like it or not. Our community is made up of divergent opinions, experience levels and knowledge bases. if there is ONE thing you can take away from TFL its There are no exact answers. There are all kinds of people in our community from all over the world. I'd hate to see our brothers and sisters offended by reprinting the racial and ethnic slurs so casually bandied about in the 50's "because thats how cirillo said it" well bless his heart but can we leave out the epithets? i'm definitely not one to re-write Huck Finn or claim to be PC but i think its detrimental to our collective cause and make us look lacking in character.
On durability of rifles... my rifles are designed to go in the woods.. if I don't feel certain about their ability to work they do NOT go in the woods. if I HAD to stake my life on one rifle it would be the one I was MOST familiar with and the most reliable. Ask a german for a rifle you get gee whiz technology and extra parts, ask an american you get precision measurements and a buy american smile, ask a russian and he'll drag the rifle through a snowbank for 6 miles behind a truck, ripping off the sights and he will fire off a 30 round clip. It will weigh more, be ugly, and a fish will be able to take it apart. Which would you rather have?
And finally on trolls and strong opinions. Not every loud mouth with a rifle is a patriot, nor is every stubborn man an idiot. Sometimes we are all loud mouthed idiots, sometimes with luck we are stubborn patriots. For instance, bless his cantankerous old soul i feel absolutely ok with disagreeing with Gale MacMillan. Bless his cussed old hide I feel perfectly willing to tell Col. Cooper to eat his hat. But man, guys like them have a LOT of information to pass on.. good solid stuff that we can all learn from. So before ya stand up on your sopabox about the new guy on the block, take a minute.. just a minute to remember.. those old guys were new guys once too, we all have something to share.
oh.. and Happy New year.
Several topics (old faves) have popped up again like the scout rifle, the effectiveness of the 223, who said what to whom and when and rethinking the very definition of "if" in physics or geometry.
Well.. being that this is a discussion forum i feel the need to get on my soapbox. (donning nomex coveralls)
On the Elk and the 223... this is a really really bad Idea, even with a head shot. Elk live in the woods.. deep dark timber where its cold and wet and stuff freezes like oily actions and your eyelashes. Could you use one? Sure if you were paoching.. the 223 is not legal in any state I'm aware of for game as large as elk. i hunt elk in Colorado elk are big tough hombres. You owe it to that elk to make a swift, sure kill. Use enough gun.
On Col. Cooper.. you love him, you hate him, you agree and disagree. I for one (even if you buy his "concept") cannot fathom paying 2500 dollars for a bolt action rifle designed to do what a 30-30 can do. Medium sized game light handling plus defense up to 300 yards.. soulds like a Marlin 336 to me.. or a scoped short action savage. I also love his anecdotal "the scout shooters SEEMED to fair better than..." kind of writing. If someone gave me this rifle i would sell it for a number of other proven guns.
On guerilla tactics.. I for one WOULD like to know what Che had to say about firepower in the bush. The only pic I've seen of him armed was with an M-2 carbine witha 30 shot clip (he was on horseback). I'd also point out that russian snipers were winning the battle of stalingrad with a rifle you can now buy for 100 dollars. i'd say training tactics and motivation had a LOT to do with thier sucesses, as well as the steel of thier guns. Sun Tzu said.. know thy enemy.. as did Patton and Rommel. Americans aren't the only 'experts" out there.. I'm curious to see more opinions from around the globe.
On what IF scenarios and geometry and fuzzy math.. there are too many what ifs. To quote Dennis Hopper.. "you can't land on a fraction". MANY of these cannot be devined without sort of having been there or done that. I've seen 180 grain bullets explode on impact on a 150 pound antelope scoring NO penetration but an amazing instant kill.. I've seen wounded game take multiple hits with awe insprirng powerful rifles and keep going. I've seen experts and novices alike make mistakes. None of these 'sciences" is exact when Mr. Murphy is in the house and the weather is bad. practice when its dark and cold and yucky and shoot a lot.. no matter what your sport you'll do better.
On training, character and shooting...Magic bullets do not exist but trained men do. there are guys I've met who will SCARE you with how good they are.. some you'd want to sit down to dinner with and some you would not. Col. Cooper looks like someones' grandpa, Ted Nugent looks like .. well Ted Nugent.. both guys are spokesmen for our rights like it or not. Our community is made up of divergent opinions, experience levels and knowledge bases. if there is ONE thing you can take away from TFL its There are no exact answers. There are all kinds of people in our community from all over the world. I'd hate to see our brothers and sisters offended by reprinting the racial and ethnic slurs so casually bandied about in the 50's "because thats how cirillo said it" well bless his heart but can we leave out the epithets? i'm definitely not one to re-write Huck Finn or claim to be PC but i think its detrimental to our collective cause and make us look lacking in character.
On durability of rifles... my rifles are designed to go in the woods.. if I don't feel certain about their ability to work they do NOT go in the woods. if I HAD to stake my life on one rifle it would be the one I was MOST familiar with and the most reliable. Ask a german for a rifle you get gee whiz technology and extra parts, ask an american you get precision measurements and a buy american smile, ask a russian and he'll drag the rifle through a snowbank for 6 miles behind a truck, ripping off the sights and he will fire off a 30 round clip. It will weigh more, be ugly, and a fish will be able to take it apart. Which would you rather have?
And finally on trolls and strong opinions. Not every loud mouth with a rifle is a patriot, nor is every stubborn man an idiot. Sometimes we are all loud mouthed idiots, sometimes with luck we are stubborn patriots. For instance, bless his cantankerous old soul i feel absolutely ok with disagreeing with Gale MacMillan. Bless his cussed old hide I feel perfectly willing to tell Col. Cooper to eat his hat. But man, guys like them have a LOT of information to pass on.. good solid stuff that we can all learn from. So before ya stand up on your sopabox about the new guy on the block, take a minute.. just a minute to remember.. those old guys were new guys once too, we all have something to share.
oh.. and Happy New year.