Titegroup or Bullseye

[akinswi]

I have been meaning to work up a lighter 9mm load for my springfield XDM 5.25

I have titegroup and bullseye powder. 115 grain FMJ (jacketed) not plated projectiles. I was going to start light to where the gun may not cycle and incrementally increase the charge until it cycles the action reliably but still light.

I will not be changing springs. I just wanted to get audiences take on which powder would do better. I typically use titegroup for my +p loads in 9mm and the bullseye for wadcutter loads in 38spl

Thanks

 

[Unclenick]

Very similar burn rates. Bullseye will burn sootier, while Tightgroup will burn hotter. Bullseye has a bit more energy, so you may get a little more total energy for operating the gun from it, but I would assume either can be made to work.

 

[mikejonestkd]

I use ALOT of Bullseye for lighter loads in 9mm. As Unclenick mentioned, Tightgroup works fine, but seems to get the gun hotter quicker,

 

[akinswi]

I stopped using titegroup in my revolvers because they would get hot real quick.
I will give the ole bullseye the go ahead.

 

[Nick_C_S]

I think Unclenick covered it.

Although, I know both Bullseye and TiteGroup are energetic; I thought TG was slightly more energetic. At this point, I'm sure I was wrong.

Either way, I believe either would work well.

 

[DMY]

I have used and like both Bullseye and TightGroup. Both are accurate and meter well. Although Bullseye is a little more sooty, I prefer it for light losds. TG tends to be more snappy in addition to burning more hot.

 

[44 AMP]

I've been using Bullseye for light to standard loads in several calibers since about 1970. Never tried Titegroup.

A couple things to be aware of when working with light loads in recoil operated actions. The first is different guns can have different points where they reliably function. I had a light .45acp load that wouldn't reliably cycle my Colt Govt Model, but when I put that ammo in my Browning BDA.45 it cycled just fine. Cases seemed to "roll out" of the ejection port and drop straight down, but every round cycled the slide to feed the next round and it locked open normally when empty. Different gun, different results.

The other thing to be aware of is that if you're working up from a load that doesn't reliably cycle the action, you may not want to stop right at the point everything works. you might want to go just a little bit further.

Because the point where the gun cycles can change as you're shooting. Not much, but enough, if you're right on the edge of reliability to beging with.

As the gun gets dirty from shooting, it may change its lower reliability level slightly. And the more its used the larger the change can be. How dirty the ammo is will also play a part.

I've had light loads which would cycle a clean gun 100%, but after you put a box of ammo through it, it was no longer 100%. Because that load was right on the edge of working properly. Bumping up the powder charge just a little was enough to over come friction and crud build up for a few hundred rounds, which was good enough for me.

 

[akinswi]

44AMP,

I was thinking the same thing, but what increment would you choose lets say for “Example” I land at 3.5 grains of Bullseye and at 3.3 the slide funtion was 60 to 70% reliable would you bump it 3.7? in .2 grain increments.

Another question Would you seat them a tad bit deeper in the case or just keep your normal COL.

 

[gwpercle]

Use the one you have the most of .

Bullseye would be my choice for this if I had an unlimited supply of each .

Titegroup is good but when it comes to light loads and accuracy ...
... Nothing Beats Bullseye ... N-O-T-H-I-N-G ...
so whats a little soot ... you clean your guns don't you .
alot of soot comes from bullet lube ...don't sweat it .
Gary

 

[44 AMP]

for “Example” I land at 3.5 grains of Bullseye and at 3.3 the slide funtion was 60 to 70% reliable would you bump it 3.7? in .2 grain increments.

I might, but I might not, it depends on many other factors. remember where you are, you're looking for something that is right on the bottom edge, or off "the map". And, when talking specific numbers (and small ones at that) they are useful in general terms, but not so much in a specific detailed application, without also taking into account other details (such as the gun) specific to your situation.

Simply put, I don't have your gun. My guns can be (and are) different from yours. My guns are different from each other. Minor differences, to be sure, but different. For example, my old Lyman manual lists 3.5gr Bullseye as the start load (124gr bullet) and vel as 900fps. A much newer Hornday book lists 3.9gr as the start load (115grfmj) for 1000fps.

In your situation, if you're getting reliable function from 3.5gr, I'd load a bunch of those and see if, in the amount of shooting you usually do between cleanings see if there is any change during the batch. Does the slide seem to get sluggish after 75rnds? 30? 150? no noticeable change? Maybe you don't need to bump the load up at all, you'll have to test that for yourself.

What I was trying to point out was that you might encounter the spot where things run fine, for a while, then start messing up, and to be aware that if you do, you'll need to bump the load up, just a bit, and then test again. Not that you will have to do that, only that you should be aware that you might have to.

And I would (and do) keep my COAL the same. I load for function and don't try to "adjust" the internal powder space with minor changes in seating depth.

For my 9mm and .38 Special plinking ammo, I've been loading Red Dot for years. Not because of any advantage that powder gives me, but because, for ME, its the most economical. Its economy for me wouldn't apply to you, because I still have about 1/3 of a keg of it, bought ages ago (so today, essentially free) and don't use it for anything else, anymore. Dirty as hell, but they do go bang just fine. I use it because I've got about 20,000 rnds worth of it, and other wise, its just sitting there.

Load and shoot at 3.5gr, if after a while the gun starts to choke, load the next batch just a tad more, and try again. If it works fine at 3.5, you're good to go.

Good luck. Be safe, have fun!

 

[Mike38]

I've tried both Bullseye and Titegroup in 9mm. Both performed identically, but Titegroup was cleaner. I've never noticed if the pistol barrel gets hotter with Titegroup, but I don't do mag dumps. I rarely shoot more than 5 or 6 rounds without lowering the gun and taking a short breather.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

If you have some, or can find some give Clays a try. You’ll want more once you try it.

 

[Metal god]

I was thinking the same thing, but what increment would you choose lets say for “Example” I land at 3.5 grains of Bullseye and at 3.3 the slide function was 60 to 70% reliable would you bump it 3.7? in .2 grain increments.

Yeah that's likely what I would do but I've never used Bullseye . I do use Titegroup a lot and it rarely has more then a .7gr variance from min to max . I mean Hodgdon has there Titegroup pushing 115gr bullet as min 4.5gr and max 4.8gr . Not a whole lot of wiggle room there haha . There lead data at the same bullet weight isn't much more forgiving with only a .4gr spread .

 

[akinswi]

Yeah that's likely what I would do but I've never used Bullseye . I do use Titegroup a lot and it rarely has more then a .7gr variance from min to max . I mean Hodgdon has there Titegroup pushing 115gr bullet as min 4.5gr and max 4.8gr . Not a whole lot of wiggle room there haha . There lead data at the same bullet weight isn't much more forgiving with only a .4gr spread .

Metal_God,

My Favorite Load for 9mm 115 grain bullets is 4.9 grains of Titegroup its a tad bit above max and never had any issues. But they are snappy. How I landed on that load is because of my Lee Pro 1000 and the Lee auto disks drops them at 4.9 , you cant really use there chart so I just weighed them and the next hole down was 4.4 or 4.3 it was in between that spread. I tried using the micrometer but it wasnt very accurate

I wanted something I could shoot alot faster follow up shots with because these loads arent it. But it has been a great powder because it works well in 45acp too.

I bought Bulleyes powder for 38spl because its been a tried and true powder longer than we have been alive. Its dirty but it keeps the barrel cooler compared to tight group I mean alot cooler.

But I love Titegroup great powder!

 

[jetinteriorguy]

Titegroup is definitely great stuff, until it’s not. I sure miss that S&W 627.