Thoughts on accurate, inexpensive .223?

C

carguychris

New member
Howdy all,

I've been contemplating my gun shopping list for 2008. ;) I intend to buy another rifle- something with a little more power and long-range capability than my 10/22.

I was originally contemplating a pistol-caliber lever carbine or maybe a "sport utility", but I really enjoy shooting small targets at long range, and I'd like something that will work at REALLY long range, like 300 yds. I'm beginning to think that a .357 lever gun or AK-platform rifle won't give me the accuracy I expect, and since I normally fire slowly anyway, maybe I shouldn't make my decision based on rate-of-fire and ammo capacity!

I'm tempted to go with a .223 because the ammo is cheap, you can buy it anywhere, the amount of reloading info is simply staggering, frangible bullets are easy to find (reducing the chances of ricochets), and it doesn't kick very hard- my Mosin-Nagant, while fun at first for the giant BOOM, gets pretty tiring after 40-50 rounds. :(

Finally, I don't want to spend more than ~$600. It seems like Remington, Savage, and CZ all offer entry-level .223 bolt-actions at around this price, and some even come with scopes pre-installed! :D Obviously, in this price range, I can't expect sub-MOA accuracy, but I'm confident that any of them will be able to shoot more accurately than a Romanian WASR. :rolleyes:

Any thoughts or comments? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Anybody have any opinions on the specific model of rifle I should choose?

Thanks! :cool:
 
I

ISC

Moderator
photo_survivor.jpg


H&R single shot in .223 or .308. I have a friend with both and he swears it is the most accurate rifle he ever had. They are also cheap and indestrucible. they have a storage compartmrnt in the buttstock for ammo or gear.
 
Y

Yankee Doodle

New member
Savage. There is NO better, more accurate bolt action rifle for anywhere near the price. You will get sub MOA accuracy with the right load. Mine shoots 3/4" groups at 200 yards all day, if I do my part.
 
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ISC

Moderator
my friend has the savage tactical in .308 (he actually got it from me) Its a great rifle, the best I ever got out of it was 1.5 MOA, but I'm sure that was due to my limitations, not the rifle. My friend says the H & R is more accurate. Of course, the price you pay for that accuracy and low cost (less than 1/2 the price) is slow, single shot, break action loading. Since the OP specifically mentioned that shooting slowly was OK it seems like a good fit. For the price of a savage with cheap glass you can get a single shot with a better scope and a bunch of ammo.
 
C

carguychris

New member
I'd prefer a bolt-action to a single-shot.

OK, now that several people have suggested a Savage, which one should I get? They make so doggone many different models that my brain is doing flips trying to figure them all out. :eek:

Also, pardon the possible n00b question, but is it safe to fire surplus 5.56 NATO M193 ammo out of a commercial bolt-action, and assuming it's safe, is it a good idea from an accuracy standpoint?
 
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ISC

Moderator
safe, yes. accurate?

that depends on the twist rate of the rifle you're shooting it in and the bullet wieght. Milspec ammo is not going to be as consistant as handloaded ammo. Ammo produced on automated loading machines is typically less precisely loaded than handloads. this is especially true if it's loaded with certain powders. For instance, powder with cylindrically shaped granules doesn't meter as well by volume as ball powders. Ammo that is charged by weight will be more consistant than if charged by volume regardless of the granule geometry as long as there is no variation in humidity during powder storage or loading.

The difference between good ammo and mediocre ammo is in both quality of components and consistancy during the manufacturing process.
 
H

hhrgprez

New member
accurate 223

Another vote for Savage buy a varmint gun new for $500. The stock isn't very nice, most people upgrade. Richards microfit has good deals. Barrel has 1/9 twist that allows shooting heavy match bullets.
 
I

ISC

Moderator
and you CAN shoot 5.56 in a 223 chamber, the difference is only in a small area of the throat of the chamber. If you pull out a micrometer and measure the cartridge you won't be able to tell the difference. the difference between .223 and 5.56 is primarily in the difference in chamber throat diminsions and the max SAAMI pressures they can be loaded to. It's a tiny difference, and for a modern firearm for civilian or military use there is NO difference in function or results. In fact you'd never notice any difference at all unless you reload and then you'd just have to full length resize instead of case nesk resize, resulting in fewer reloads per case unless you anneal and trim.
 
C

carguychris

New member
Savage, but put better glass on it than what comes on the package deals.
Click to expand...

What comes with the package deals?

I already guessed the packaged scopes must not be very good because the packages don't cost much more than the basic rifles... :rolleyes:
 
R

Rangefinder

New member
ISC nailed it dead-on with the H&R NEF Survivor model---I have that exact rifle in .223 with a 12 guage swap-out barrel. Fantastic rifle, VERY accurate, very reliable, and H&R have a top-notch CS staff. They back what they make--period.
 
B

Buzzcook

New member
Savage or you could go with a Stevens 200.
300yds is still short range for targets believe it or not.
I doubt you'll find a bolt action in 5.56
 
R

Red Tornado

New member
As for which Savage model, look at the heavy barrel varmint rigs, like the 12FV, I think. I had a Model 12, pre-accutrigger and it was sub MOA with most ammo I tested it with.

I'm not up on all the new Savages, but if it's a HB, I'd expect it to do under an inch with several ammos. Even the lighter 45 or 55 might/should be sub-MOA, but it'll really start to shine at 62gr, and you're best groups will probably be with the 68 or 69 grain stuff.

Check out the savageshooters.com forum. I'm sure they'll have all your answers, Savagewise.

There are also H&R forums for balanced reporting. ;)
RT
 
R

root

New member
Savage, I got a package deal, the scope was pretty bad but the mounts were FAR worse - a few bucks on better mounts would make it a better "package" (mine was in .308 and it would loose zero on every shot) I put better mounts/scope on it and now it's an awesome tack driver.

in summation, savage = great rifle, but spend the money on some decent glass.
 
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