Those "Other" Brands

[jackstrawIII]

Changing the wording of my question to be a bit less inflammatory, and to steer the conversation slightly differently.

I'm a firm believer in buying "good" handguns. I own CZs, Colts, Sigs, FNs, S&Ws, Walthers, and H&Ks. I've owned others, but these have proven their reputations for quality and consistency are true.

As a gun community, we spend a lot of time talking about the big players: Glock, S&W, CZ, Ruger, Walther, Sig, Springfield, Taurus, etc... Some are generally regarded as high quality, while others are generally regarded as inferior. We talk about them, compare them, contrast them, but we all already kinda have an idea of the quality.

And then there's the "other" brands. We've already established that Glock = Cool and Hi Point = Not as Cool, but what about:

Canik?
Sphinx?
Tristar?
Honor Guard?
Hudson?
Bersa?
Boberg?
Rohrbaugh?
Tisas?

Are any of these guns worth buying instead of the more established brands listed first? Anyone have any experience with these new (or obscure) brands? I know next to nothing about them, and hardly ever see any conversations about them. Just throwing it out there, would love to learn from your experiences.

Edit: Forgot I also own FNs. Love them too.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Canik? Made in Turkey. No first-hand experience with this brand, but Turkey makes a lot of good, affordable guns. I'd try one if they had a model I was intyerested in.

Sphinx? Never heard of it.

Honor Guard? IMHO, too new to have a track record

Hudson? Brand new, start-up company. They generated a LOT of buzz at the SHOT Show this year. Don't even know if they are actually in production yet.

Bersa? Made in Argentina. Been around for a good while. The shop at my range sells a lot of them, and they don't get many problems.

 

[Mosin44az]

Actually you have already picked up bad information.

Hi-Point is not considered "Bad." Ugly and primitive, and oversized, and they are not designed to feed hollow points, but they are considered reliable and a good value for the very low price they charge.

Hudson is new. Honor Defense is also pretty new, but they sound like a serious company that spent a lot of time developing their initial product offerings. One sales guy at a Show steered me to the Shield rather than the Honor Guard, as the Shield has an impeccable rep and actually cost less. But I am intrigued by an Honor Guard in .45.

The others are well known, if you use the Search feature above you should get plenty of info. Sphinx products are Swiss made, based on the CZ design, and very expensive traditional DA pistols. My Bersa Thunder 380 ran fine, as this model generally does. I actually thought it shot better than a SIG P232 I rented. Bersa has a generally good rep. Canik is newer, Turkish (Turks know how to make good guns) and their TP9 pistols are high cap, supposedly with good triggers.

 

[blchandl2]

I have a Canik TP9 V2 and have had no issues at all with it. I guess I am weird because I kinda like the 'off brands'.

ATI MS380 - Beretta 84 copy
Arcus 98 DA
Canik TP9 V2

 

[BOOGIE the oily]

I heard Caniks are really good stuff. Like they said above, they're from Turkey. Lots of good reviews going around the interwebz...

The other ones I don't know about, except Bersas. Here's a video that might be interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvB93CmCndo

 

[JoeSixpack]

Glock, Never owned, shot a few, not a fan, but I regard as good.
S&W, not much exp with their auto's but older revolvers very nice.
CZ, never owned, shot once cz75, owners I've met have all loved it.
Ruger, revolvers are overbuilt, good quality at an affordable price.
Walther, no experience, Have eyeballed the ppk & p22 a few times though.
Sig, generally well built, have no desire to own one.
Springfield, no exp
Taurus, have several, generally good, CS had issues in the past but I think they're improving.. Im disappointed so many of their guns have been discontinued and replaced with poly versions. most of their new designs look the same, a lot of bashing but I generally like them, I carry a pt99 and soon (if it proves it self) 709
Hi Point, own c9 and 995 carbine (both 9mm) carbine has been 100% reliable, c9 had a lot of failures the first 200 rounds and then tapered off so there is a break in period, still not the most reliable gun but if it's all you can afford it's like the Cadillac for sub 200 guns.

I will say this though the stories I've heard of their CS is legendary, while I've not had any 1st hand exp I would with little doubt saying HP has the best CS in the industry, on the other hand I've been seeing some of the pocket 9mm's going for the hi-end of a c9 and so I'd probably recommend one of those over the HP for someone on a budget right now.
I carry the c9 when Im doing dirty jobs.. my moto "carry it like you hate it"
It's also made in my Home state so I do have a weird sense of pride in owning it. Fobus makes a pretty decent Paddle holster for it. and I will say the c9's powder coat finish is extremely durable.. on the other hand my carbine looked like someone did a very poor job hitting it with a spray gun, I ended up redoing it with krylon.. much better.

I got both NIB for $302 out the door.

Canik, No exp but have heard good things
Sphinx, never heard of them
Honor Guard, never heard of them
Hudson, never heard of them
Bersa, Don't own one, eye balled a few times, every owner I've come across loves them, my cousin carries thunder .380.

 

[Venom1956]

Sphinx is Swiss. They used to make the nicest cz75 style pistols 2000 then 3000. The 2k variemt was the best and has a price to match. Their newer offerings seem much more mass market I tried one of the sdp and it was very meh.

I have Taurus beef I'd never recommend someone buy one but I won't look down on those that have one they like and trust all three of my purchase have failed and after the wait time for repairs I dumped them.

Walther has gotten tricky recently since to different companies make guns under the Walther name. The original Walther and the airsoft company umarex both have guns made umarex products are trash compared to those that the original Walther guys crank out. Look for the stag proofmark for genuine Walther made guns.

 

[KyJim]

I own a Bersa Thunder .380 and used to carry it. What can I say --- I wanted a James Bond look-alike gun at Fred Flintstone prices. But, I've never had a problem with it and wouldn't hesitate to carry it again.

 

[MichaelS.]

Another "newbie" brand that is considered quite good is the Arex Rex Zero, which is based off of the Sig "P" pistol designs:

http://www.arex.si/weapons/

 

[kozak6]

I think Hi-Points get a bad rap. They are as cheap, crude, and unrefined as they are functional. Hi Point has been around for a while (unlike the other zinc cheapies) and they support their product. They are the zenith of cheap zinc guns. They wouldn't be my first choice, but you can't do any better for the money, and you can do a heck of a lot worse.

Canik?
Turkish clone guns. Generally well regarded. Some aftermarket support. Some people like to get the Caniks, have deluxe trigger work done and maybe fancy sights, and it ends up costing about as much as a stock CZ.

Sphinx?
Luxury swiss CZ clones. Too expensive for me to care.

Honor Guard?
A new company. Generally gets good reviews. I might consider one if I could check it out in person, or maybe rent one.

Hudson?
Brand new. Their space pistol isn't even on the market yet.

Bersa?
Their metal framed guns seem to be a reasonable budget option, but their plastic guns seem hit or miss.

The Arex raises eyebrows from me. It looks more like a CZ99 derivative.

In the AK market, MSR/Arsenal/FIME/Kvar like to secure exclusive contracts, and then jack up the price to maybe double where it should be (unless the market falls apart), and then trumpet their product as the very best (because it's the most expensive).

I know that Zastava and Arex are different companies, but it turns out that $618 for an Arex is ...about double what the CZ99's and derivatives go for, and don't you know that the Arex is actually better than a real Sig Legion? It's true; I saw it on Youtube .

The other part is that it's too expensive for a pistol with no parts (even magazines go in and out of stock), probably terrible service, and neither of which will likely be available in 10 years.

 

[tallball]

Tanfoglio is another one. It is an Italian company that's been around since... maybe the 50's? I have several good Tanfiglios. I particularly like their CZ75 clone sold here in the US as the EAA Witness.

Bud's Guns sells Tisas brand 1911's from Turkey. Mine is very good.

Rock Island Armory is one of several Filipino companies that export mostly 1911 copies to the US. I like my double-stack 40 caliber quite a bit. My FiL's Filipino 1911 is even nicer, but I misremember which brand it is.

Rossi is a Brazilian company that exported revolvers to the US for quite a while. I have several early 90's revolvers of theirs imported by Interarms that I like a lot. Now Rossi is owned by Taurus.

 

[CDR_Glock]

I have seen people show off pics of their Boberg and Rohrbaugh but they're not designed for high volume shooting. I believe the spring in the Rohrbaugh has to be changed every 500 rounds, too.

I've shot the Canik. Feels like a CZ. Hard to beat for the money but I have a lot of guns, already.


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[waymor51]

i have 3 caniks, very good pistols NATO iso9000 rated.

 

[PatientWolf]

I don't own any from your secondary list.

That being said, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Canik or Sphinx. I would consider a Bersa if I liked the individual gun I handled.

The Tisas I've handled I would not buy. The others I really have no comment on other than I haven't seen anything that interests me enough to even pick it up.

 

[weblance]

For my money, it comes down to customer service. IF you have a problem with an off brand, what is the experience going to be like to get it repaired? Where does it have to ship to? How long until its repaired, and returned? You have companies like Ruger and Charter Arms, that generally build pretty good budget products, but have excellent customer service. Do you want to take a chance with a product from someone who doesn't have any reputation for service, when you have companies that build quality products in the same price class, that offer superb coverage...?

 

[MandolinMan]

Great topic. I think that there are a number of great handguns out there these days that are often shunned because they don't have brand recognition.

Adding to your list:

Arex Zero one. I have no personal experience with this gun, but I've read some very good reviews. Check out the Military Arms Channel videos if interested.

Tristar. I once shot a friends ( model S-120 I believe) as was very impressed. Fit and finish compared very well to the CZ 75.

My main gripe with these lesser known guns is not quality, but accessories and support. It can be difficult to find holsters that properly fit.

 

[Model12Win]

Keep in mind some South American air forces issue the Bersa Thunder .380s to pilots and officers.

They are good to go.

 

[lee n. field]

And then there's the "other" brands. We've already established that Glock = Cool and Hi Point = Not as Cool, but what about:

Canik?
Tisas?
Tristar?

Imports, from Turkey. Who supports them would be my big question, beyond cost and reliability?

Honor Guard?

Too new. Not much reputation yet, that I have seen.

Hudson?

Not out yet.

Bersa?

"second tier", been around a while. I had a Bersa .45 for a while, which broke too many times for me to be comfortable with it. Nice shooter though. I may try one again sometime. They seem to really like internal locks and magazine disconnects.

Boberg?

Sold to Bond Arms. The Bond Arms version isn't out yet.

Rohrbaugh?

AFAIK, bought by Remington. Remington's new micro.380 is based on the Rohrbaugh. Mixed review on that version, from what I've seen.

Sphinx?

reputation as a high end Swiss CZ clone. Intermittently imported into the United State.

 

[dgludwig]

Hudson?
Brand new.

Hardly "brand new". Hudson started in 1909. They just got back in business is all.

 

[Independent George]

I believe the original Sphinx (that made the 2000 and 3000 lines) went out of business, and the brand is now owned by Kriss USA. I only read that on the interwebs, though, so please feel free to correct me.

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