This just in... Gunman fired over 170 shots
- Thread starter Groundhog
- Start date
KALIFORNIST
New member
170 rounds sounds about right to me for 32 kills by a untrained idiot.I would think it would take several shots for alot of people plus the obvious misses and shots at movement.I also wouldnt be surprised to find out he was using cheap round nose target ammo which would result in several shots to each person due to the lack of stopping power.He probably shot someone and when they didnt fall took several more shots at the person.Depressing to think about.Has there been reports of the walther p22 being used yet?
FirstFreedom
Moderator
More questions than answers right now...
1. Was it 30 or 32 dead?
2. How many wounded?
3. How many mags for the Glock were on him, total?
4. Were each of them 15-rounders for the model 19? Or extended model 17 mags holding 17?
5. How many of the 170 shots were 9mm, and how many were .22?
6. How many mags did he have for the P22?
#3 through #6, together, will tell us whether or not he actually had to load up loose ammo into a mag during the rampage - if so, that would have been a great time to assault his position.
#1 and #2 together, plus the 170 shots, combined with 3 rounds per dead, will tell us how many rounds (X) he needed to would (Y) number of people.
tragic, tragic....
1. Was it 30 or 32 dead?
2. How many wounded?
3. How many mags for the Glock were on him, total?
4. Were each of them 15-rounders for the model 19? Or extended model 17 mags holding 17?
5. How many of the 170 shots were 9mm, and how many were .22?
6. How many mags did he have for the P22?
#3 through #6, together, will tell us whether or not he actually had to load up loose ammo into a mag during the rampage - if so, that would have been a great time to assault his position.
#1 and #2 together, plus the 170 shots, combined with 3 rounds per dead, will tell us how many rounds (X) he needed to would (Y) number of people.
tragic, tragic....
I think that they said he had 15 round magazines. If thats so and he only used the glock that is 12 magazines, if he had 10 round mags that would have been 17.
So the "assault weapon ban would have helped" crap that the brady campaign was running is nothing but trash. He had to do 11 reloads so what would 16 have done..... NOTHING same result.
So the "assault weapon ban would have helped" crap that the brady campaign was running is nothing but trash. He had to do 11 reloads so what would 16 have done..... NOTHING same result.
SeaMariner
New member
I have always complained about this topic.... WHY CAN'T ANYBODY SHOOT? FBI has a hit rating of 4 out of ten at the last study I saw... most school shooters are worse... 170 shots for 32 people... assuming he hit every other person twice, that still about than 1 in 4....
Remember Paducah? a five or six shot revolver in a "crowded hallway" and he hits TWO people.... ***? I suppose we should all be happy that they are by and large such poor shots but I still can't image missing THAT much... especially when they're not armed and fighting back...
Hell, I think gangsters are holding better hit averages, often against armed opponents or blindy through walls of homes... ofcourse... they also practice alot more than the cops and mass-murder shooters do...
Remember Paducah? a five or six shot revolver in a "crowded hallway" and he hits TWO people.... ***? I suppose we should all be happy that they are by and large such poor shots but I still can't image missing THAT much... especially when they're not armed and fighting back...
Hell, I think gangsters are holding better hit averages, often against armed opponents or blindy through walls of homes... ofcourse... they also practice alot more than the cops and mass-murder shooters do...
Hmmm
What are you basing that assertion on? I suspect that the ammo companies would like you to think that (the profit margin on hollow points is probably much much higher). Shot placement is more critical than the type of bullet used, and I suspect the shot placement was not all that efficient.
Those classrooms are small, with no way out. Cram 30+ people in there, and I suspect many of them assumed the fetal position, and any "untrained idiot" could approach the FBI standard.
The fact that he bothered to carry a P22 in addition to the G19 only proves his "untrained idiot" status.
Yes 1 round could have saved many lives, I was thinking more along the lines of at least five or six rounds but....
What are you basing that assertion on? I suspect that the ammo companies would like you to think that (the profit margin on hollow points is probably much much higher). Shot placement is more critical than the type of bullet used, and I suspect the shot placement was not all that efficient.
Those classrooms are small, with no way out. Cram 30+ people in there, and I suspect many of them assumed the fetal position, and any "untrained idiot" could approach the FBI standard.
The fact that he bothered to carry a P22 in addition to the G19 only proves his "untrained idiot" status.
Yes 1 round could have saved many lives, I was thinking more along the lines of at least five or six rounds but....
ShootemDown
Moderator
Odd, the media showed a bunch of hollowpoints on the news supposed to be from the madman's videotape. I'm pretty sure they werent Speer gold dots, the holes were smaller.
AmesJainchill
New member
Sirhan Sirhan did okay. IIRC he got eight out of eight hits.
Also, there were an additional 29 wounded. So two or three shots each for around sixty people means he didn't miss hardly at all.
Around 50 wounded OR killed.
Works out to 3.4 shots per victim.
With the ER docs comments about multiple wounds (he said at least 3) on each victim, not as high as it sounds.
I also saw a report that says 17 magazines found.
Will try to find an online link.
"Law enforcement officials said they found 17 ammunition magazines at the scene."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...04/25/AR2007042500172.html?hpid=moreheadlines
Works out to 3.4 shots per victim.
With the ER docs comments about multiple wounds (he said at least 3) on each victim, not as high as it sounds.
I also saw a report that says 17 magazines found.
Will try to find an online link.
"Law enforcement officials said they found 17 ammunition magazines at the scene."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...04/25/AR2007042500172.html?hpid=moreheadlines
This just in
I'm a college administrator and teachers are asking me what they should instruct their students to do in such a situation. Any suggestions? So far I've told them to use their bookbags- but in another thread you'll note that bookbags aren't as thick these days for college students. Or maybe their desks- and the tactics that the VT students used- holding the door closed with a desk, jumping out the window. I have CCW, but can't carry on college campus
I'm a college administrator and teachers are asking me what they should instruct their students to do in such a situation. Any suggestions? So far I've told them to use their bookbags- but in another thread you'll note that bookbags aren't as thick these days for college students. Or maybe their desks- and the tactics that the VT students used- holding the door closed with a desk, jumping out the window. I have CCW, but can't carry on college campus
IMHO, don't ask, don't tell bud.
Given the confusion during the event and probably outright panic, it's hard to say that any advice would help. Keeping your head about you would be key.
Assuming that could be done, multiple people rushing him would probably have ended it. Next best thing would have been to baracade the doors and get away from them. I like the fire alarm idea too BUT you'd be sending innocents into the hall right to him also. I think it could have been minimized but it's so hard to say if it would have worked.
Truely the best defense would have been SEVERAL trained CCW's carrying at the time.
SeaMariner
New member
Most of the reports I had read did not list wounded so I was working on the thought that most of the wounded later on..
This just in
Don't ask- don't tell- I agree, at least for some of us! I'm trying to figure out what to tell the 600 or so teachers we have, since the campus police could get there before me and I'd have to give advice over the phone, unless they called our campus 911...But I also need to give preventive advice now in anticipation of such an event. Thanks for your help.
Don't ask- don't tell- I agree, at least for some of us!
I'm trying to figure out what to tell the 600 or so teachers we have, since the campus police could get there before me and I'd have to give advice over the phone, unless they called our campus 911...But I also need to give preventive advice now in anticipation of such an event. Thanks for your help.