This is what gives the rest of us a bad name

[elwaine]

Taken from Yahoo News, on 2/2/2007:
CAMBRIDGE, Minn. - A farmer who chased down a thief and held him at gunpoint until authorities arrived now faces a more serious charge than the thief himself.

Kenneth Smith, 74, was charged with second-degree assault, a felony. The thief, who the sheriff said admitted stealing about $5 worth of gasoline from Smith's neighbor, was charged with misdemeanor theft.

Sheriff Mike Ammend said people can't take the law into their own hands, and that Smith's actions were "an invitation to a shootout. There's so many things that could have gone wrong here."

On Oct. 15, Smith pointed a gun at Christian Young, 28, and a woman at the vacant farm next to Smith's place in Bradford Township. He then chased their vehicle at speeds of 70 mph, according to the criminal complaint. A 3-year-old child was in the vehicle.

During the chase, Smith used a cell phone to call the sheriff's office and asked if he should "blow them away," according to the complaint.

[Note: the real names of the perps were changed to protect the ignorant.]

 

[kevin387]

Do you have a link?

 

[Gbro]

Well i think the wrong man is wearing the badge.

Why did you change the names in the story?

The Yahoo article is kind of short on info,
This is a link to a more informative story on this incident.

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/articles/index.cfm?id=34835&section=news

Yahoo Story
http://www.washingtontimes.com/upi/20070201-035211-7474r.htm

The low life in that area should pay attention.
Gbro

 

[DonR101395]

Let me get this straight, the guy takes his wife/girlfriend and 3 year old child to steal gas and you think the farmer gives gun owners a bad name?
What is the world coming to

 

[Playboypenguin]

I am afraid I agree that stealing gas is not an offense worth shooting someone over. Especially since it wasn't even his gas.

It is not worth the high speed chase nor the question "should I blow them away?"

If a person cannot see the gross over-reaction by the gun weilder here then I would question whether they have good enough judgement to be carrying a firearm themselves.

Would you wrestle an old lady that steals a can of tuna at the grocery store because she is hungry to the ground and put a gun to her temple?

Talk about a Rambo wanna-be.

 

[elwaine]

Let me get this straight, the guy takes his wife/girlfriend and 3 year old child to steal gas and you think the farmer gives gun owners a bad name?

Get real. You need to read the carry statutes in your state (whatever state you reside in). First off, there is (almost) never a justifiable reason for a non-LEO to chase a perp. Period! And just how would you justify a high speed pursuit – and perhaps the death of the baby in the car - over a $5 theft of anything? Over a Million dollar theft of anything? Maybe that old farmer isn’t the only one giving gun owners a bad name!

 

[liliysdad]

I dont see the problem with what the farmer did, and I am a police officer. Where I grew up, neighbors take care of each other. What this elderly man did may not have been the most intelligent thing, but it was far from wrong. A thief is a thief, period, whether it be five gallons of gas, or five hundred head of cattle.

As for taking the law into his own hands, the farmer did nothing of the sort. He witnessed a crime, he followed and detained the criminal until authorities arrived. These things are well within his rights. If he had shot the man, after witnessing him take the gas, then I would have issue. The only thing I see that is completely out of whack is the supposed chase. However, I would imagine that the term chase was coined by the theif, not the farmer. One man's chase is another man's following. 70 mph really isnt very fast for a "chase."

This being said, would I encourage anyone to do this over something so seemingly trivial? No, of course not. However, the farmer is a grown man, and has the God given ability to form his own opinion of what is right and what is wrong. As long as he was within the confines of the law, and I feel he was, I am not going to judge him. As fas as we know, the gas theft could have been the last straw in a long line of thefts in the area, and the man decided to do something.

I say good on him, and if he has an attorney that can form a complete sentence, this will never be filed.

 

[shortydog]

to bad it wasn't in texas at night on his own property. he could have "blown them away" legally.

hopfully somebody will kill this trash before he gets bolder in his crimes.

politically correct gun owners... damn.
are some of you people from the UK ?
the poor criminal.:barf:

 

[Playboypenguin]

hopfully somebody will kill this trash before he gets bolder in his crimes.

What a disgusting statement.

I guess a homeless child that steals a piece of food should be gunned down before they can start their life of crime if you use this absurd mentality.

This is the kind of "baiting statement" an anti-gun troll would post to try and start a mad frenzy of rabid posts to make gun owners look like a pack of wild dogs.

I dont see the problem with what the farmer did, and I am a police officer.

Then I would question your training. I was a state trooper for a period before the first gulf war and I would say any LEO would know the proper reaction to such a mild crime would have been for the farmer to call the police and give them the guys license plate number.

Vigilanties are bad enough, but ones with poor enough judgement to turn a $5 theft into a possible deadly situation are inexcusable.

There is not a need for a chase that might cause an accident and endanger innocent civilians much less the brandishing of a weapon.

 

[elwaine]

liliysdad:
You da man! If I ever have to use my gun, I want you to be the investigating officer.

 

[liliysdad]

I guess a homeless child that steals a piece of food should be gunned down before they can start their life of crime if you use this absurd mentality.

I am not sure where you are from, but 'round here, a thief is not tolerated. DO they deserve to die? Of course not, but they must be held accountable. To further explain the mentality here, a man needing five gallons of gas would need only ask, as he would be given this with no problems.

Your hungry child scenario is completely irrelevant, as a child is not the same as a grown man. A grown man, who can apparently procreate, should have the intelligence to know theft is wrong, and should have the maturity to swallow his pride in a time of need. If you need gas, ask for gas. If you are too proud, and decide to steal, you have deserved ant negative retribution which you may receive.

 

[elwaine]

Playboypengiun:

Before joining some of these gun forums I carried a gun solely to protect myself from BGs. But now I also carry to protect myself from some of my fellow forum members (who would just as soon spit as blow away anyone they deem as "trash"). It’s enough to battle The Diane Feinstein’s of the world. We shouldn’t have to battle non-criminal (non-thinking) legal gun owners. But that's exactly what we need to do in order to protect our right to own and to carry!

 

[Playboypenguin]

If you are too proud, and decide to steal, you have deserved ant negative retribution which you may receive.

As an LEO I am sure you understand the difference between a misdemeanor and a felony. Do you believe a misdemeanor deserves a chase and an armed apprehension by a non-LEO bystander?

If so do CCW holders need to start pulling a weapon on jaywalkers, people who park illegally, someone that litters, etc? Exactely where do you draw the line as to when it is ok to start taking violent action against someone committing a minor crime?

 

[elwaine]

'round here, a thief is not tolerated.

Well hot damn, boy. Are you advocating Sharia Law? You want maybe we should chop off the hands of all thieves? Or maybe just their right hand if it’s a first time offense? I don’t get your drift.

 

[rellascout]

As an LEO I am sure you understand the difference between a misdemeanor and a felony. Do you believe a misdemeanor deserves a chase and an armed apprehension by a non-LEO bystander?

If so do CCW holders need to start pulling a weapon on jaywalkers, people who park illegally, someone that litters, etc? Exactely where do you draw the line as to when it is ok to start taking violent action against someone committing a minor crime?

I agree with you 100%. That individual had no business chasing the criminal over a misdemeanor theft.

 

[bobn]

hm i live in rural minn and i am here to tell you most of us are not doing so good. i lived for ten years with out running water, elect or sewer. most of the older guys around here never had the opportunnity to cash in on the rampant phoney inflation years of the clintons or previous democrats. this is hard for you to understand but around here when a man and his family go without working misearable jobs just to get by THEIVES deserve to get it. did he do whats correct in this bs policitical correct society you city dwellers created? NO but he did do what all of us in rural non influential society would have done? YES....bobn

 

[Edward429451]

I agree 100% with liliysdad.

One of the reasons that crime is so rampant is that we're being conditioned to not resist it for any reason. 5 bucks isn't worth it? How about 500? No? Your vehicle? Tools, gasoline, livelyhood? Some of us may be missing Liliysdad's point I think.

Men are not chased down and held at gunpoint for 5 bucks worth of stolen gas, but for gas to be not stolen. It's the principle of the issue and not the dollar amount. Lets quit empowering the thieves to get bolder and cross more lines by getting on the net and saying to the world, Oh, I'd let the guy go. Oh how the thieves must laugh when they hear that sentiment.

Is only the defense of life precious enough to defend with lethal force? Ok, so you'd let the rapist go too because your wife is still living? I'd probably draw down on someone siphoning my gas too. OTOH, I'd probably give him some if he had enough respect to knock on my door and ask.

 

[shortydog]

What a disgusting statement.

I guess a homeless child that steals a piece of food should be gunned down before they can start their life of crime if you use this absurd mentality.

This is the kind of "baiting statement" an anti-gun troll would post to try and start a mad frenzy of rabid posts to make gun owners look like a pack of wild dogs.

oh please spare me your bull****.
why do you even own a firearm? from your logic you won't use it.

 

[shortydog]

You want maybe we should chop off the hands of all thieves? Or maybe just their right hand if it’s a first time offense?

yes.
you think crime would go down ?

 

[Playboypenguin]

why do you even own a firearm? from your logic you won't use it.

I own many, and I have had the misfortune of using one against my fellow man in service of my country. I would also not hesitate to use my own again if there was a threat to the life of myself, a loved one, or an innocent person. I not only pessess the ability to use a firearm but the judgement to know when it is appropriate. So spare me you ridiculous and uneducated statements.

Unless you are a troll, which I am starting to think you might be, you might best serve the pro-gun movement by keeping such comments to yourself.