The symbolic value of weapons

BlueTrain

New member
It has been a while since the sword was seen on the battlefield. Carrying them on foot went out in 1914, while on horseback they survived, in some places, to 1945. The Japanese were exceptions and swords were carried until the end of WWII. I wonder what the status of swords is in the Japanese SDF today?

But you still see them used ceremoniously in most armies, including here. For that matter, other mostly obsolete weapons like pikes, halberds, spontoons and axes still show up on in parades and on the drill field. Axes, however, are actually carried as tools, even in ceremonies, rather than as weapons but only in a few units, though they might be dandy weapons.

But weapons, some in particular, have a symbolic value beyond their practical fighting value. Some were marks of rank, authority or office even when they were still used on the battlefield. The knightly sword of Medieval times was surely a mark of the knight. No one else carried them, even though others were armed, only not with a knight's sword. A samauri sword had exactly the same status, apparently. Often these marks were extended to senior NCOs or men-at-arms (sargents). So today, a sword is the mark of rank. One might make a similiar distinction about the bayonet. While they have utility, it is rarely while on the end of a rifle but a fixed bayonet is still a mark of a soldier. Indeed, bayonets appear on shoulder sleeve insignia. Some country's flag displays an AK-47 and that has to have some meaning.

A few weapons have evolved for ceremonial purposes to the point where a weapon is no longer recognizable and an example is a ceremonial mace of a parliment.

A civilian, including the civil police, is in a different position. A civilian's weapon is thought of as a handgun. Even Jeff Cooper said so. Even in places where civilian ownership of weapons, or at least handguns, the use of them for defensive purposes is not common, though some will argue to the contrary. One could also argue that handguns have limited battlefield utility. But I will suggest that the symbolic value of a weapon is greater than its practical utility, mostly. (Not the symbolism of a weapon, which is different).

You may vote, thought not many do, supposedly. So is there any value to having a vote? You may have a gun but never need to use it, even if you are a policeman. So is their any value to having a gun? And here I mean a fighting weapon, not a single barrel shotgun or a 22 rifle. But loose the vote and then what? Loose your arms and then what?

If a government can remove the object that have mostly symbolic value, in that their practical use is rarely utilized, then they are prevented from doing nothing. This almost sounds like an argument for open carry, doesn't it, though that isn't what started me thinking about it but rather a photo of a Swiss citizen going to vote while carrying a sword.

Just try carrying a sword to a polling place here!
 

Nnobby45

New member
What you refer to as symbolic is also tradition. It could be argued that the purpose of the pistol, once issued to officers only, was symbolic and not expected to affect the outcome of a battle.

The Army lost it's tradition when it eliminated CARS (Combat Arms Regimental System) and went to the generic Brigade system. 1, 2d, and 3rd Brigage. And 1, 2d and 3rd Battalion for each Brigade.

With tradition (and symbolism) lost, morale was affected and the Regimental system was brought back, even if it was in name only, and only for Combat battalions.

Now, each Battalion in an Inf. Brigade, once again, carries the colors of past regiments of that Division that have distinguised themselves in battle. Whether it was at the Little Big Horn, or the Ardennes, or Pork Chop Hill.

Morale was restored, and protecting the tradition of those who served that unit previously, with many giving their lives, or were wounded in the process, has meaning that transcends symbolism, and upholding that tradition becomes a matter of honor.


Ceremony, tradition, symbolism, legacy, honor---the subject keeps getting bigger and it branches out in different directions and has many different contexts and meanings for many different people. :cool:

There's tradition and symbolism at the tomb of the unknown soldier, in Colleges, the family unit and.........well the examples don't stop, though I'd better or this could be a real long post.:D

You may vote, thought not many do, supposedly. So is there any value to having a vote?

Yes, since the fewer people who vote, the more power in the votes of those who do. Ask Al Gore (in his case, ask about the ones who didn't vote).
 
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BlueTrain

New member
Although tradition may be present, tradition was not exactly my meaning. In all military parades and ceremonies I have been present at in which men were under arms but outside of Washington, DC, officers generally were armed with pistols. I also am not saying that handguns have no practical value but far from it.

My theory, if you can call it that, is about civilian (and non-police) weapons, handguns in particular and the theory in a few words is that legal possession of weapons, especially firearms and more particularly handguns, means more from a symbolic standpoint than their practical value would necessarily indicate. I realize that might be a little dense but nevertheless, it sure looks like people have more freedom, or rather, control over their lives generally, when they are allowed to own weapons. I had to add "legal" because in a few parts of the world arms are probably widely possesed irregardless of the law because the law is weak or none existant.
 

Nnobby45

New member
My theory, if you can call it that, is about civilian (and non-police) weapons, handguns in particular and the theory in a few words is that legal possession of weapons, especially firearms and more particularly handguns, means more from a symbolic standpoint than their practical value would necessarily indicate.

What's more "practical" to carry with you at all times for SD than a pistol? That's not mere "symbolism".

Of course, Americans have "traditionally" been armed for SD purposes and that transcends mere "symbolism". I guess a person can own a gun for SD, symbolism, tradition, gun collecting or a financial investment if one wishes.
 

BlueTrain

New member
I thought for sure that I said I did not mean that handguns had no practical value but I read and re-read my posting and it wasn't there. But anyhow, if they had no practical value, then their symbolic value would be meaningless. In the same way, if there is only one canditate on the ballot, then the value of the vote doesn't mean a whole lot either.

Yes, Americans have been armed traditionally. How many is another question and I don't know how to go about providing any statistics but safe to say at least some were. Same thing with voting. Some could vote and some did.
 
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