The right optic to cowitness

Black Wolf

New member
I put together an AR pistol, for my wife. I still need to put an optic on it. It has MagPul back up iron (plastic) sights which will stay folded down, normally. If/when they are used, I'd like to be able to see them easily through the optic. Not sure which ones will require a riser an such. So, if y'all have found any good combinations involving those particular back ups, please advise.

Thanks.
 

marine6680

New member
Most optics will need a riser. Some come dedicated for AR use so they don't need one, usually the lower cost options. Others may come with a riser already installed.

You want to be able to see the sights through the optic, so you are looking at an absolute co-witness or lower 1/3 co-witness. I and many prefer the lower 1/3 height, it brings your head more upright than an absolute co-witness. Works with modern shooting style better...


The question is cost. If it's just for having fun at the range, no need for a high end Red Dot Sight

The best bang for the buck RDS is the Primary Arms Advanced RDS with knob control. With a mount added as a package deal it is about $160 or so. It's built well and has great battery life of 5 years.

Spend any less and you are significantly increasing your chance at having it crap out or have other issues down the road.
 

pblanc

New member
Some of the following may already be known to you so don't feel I am talking down to you since I don't know what your background experience level is.

First off, for the most part magnified optics will not allow you to cowitness the sights through the optic. If you want to be able to do so, you are looking at a riflescope that offers a true 1X mag setting, a red dot sight, or a non-magnified prism scope.

Whether you choose to have an exact co-witness or a lower 1/3 co-witness is a matter of preference. Many red dot sights and other optics that are intended for an AR platform will either come with a riser built in, or an add-on riser. Most of these will provide for either an exact co-witness or a lower 1/3 co-witness. A few models will come with two risers to provide for either.

In case you don't know, with a red dot sight that is set up for an exact co-witness, the red dot when centered within the optic by adjusting your head position will pretty much exactly align with the tip of the front sight post when aligned within the rear sight aperture. With a lower 1/3 co-witness you can still see and use the back-up sights in the lower part of the optics field of view but the red dot, when centered, will be seen well above the tip of the front sight post.

On a standard flat-top AR receiver you need to mount the center of the optic about 36-37 mm above the top of the Picatinny rail for an exact co-witness. For a lower 1/3 co-witness the center of the optic will need to be mounted a bit higher, around 40 mm or so.

If you want an exact co-witness with your back-up sights an option to consider is the SIG Romeo 5. This has an instant-on feature that preserves battery life and allows the illumination to come back on at the last intensity setting. It has a crisp 2 MOA dot and comes with a 1.41" high riser that is removable. I have purchased two on sale for just under $120 and have occasionally seen it listed even cheaper. Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore currently has it listed at $119.99.

There are a number of red dot sights made by Holosun which are very similar to the Romeo 5 that also have the shake-awake feature.

Another optic I have used is the Vortex Spitfire 1X which is a non-magnified prism scope. Prism scopes are good options if you have astigmatism which can result in smearing and distortion of a red dot sight. The Spitfire has an etched reticle so you can see it (in black) even when it is not illuminated. The reticle can be illuminated either red or green and the reticle's 3 MOA dot is surrounded by two concentric aiming circles that allows for rapid target acquisition. This optic comes with a removable riser that mounts its center 40.4 mm above the rail allowing for a lower 1/3 co-witness.

Another Vortex optic I have not used, but which seems to be quite popular, is the Sparc. This is a non-magnified RDS with a simple 2 MOA dot reticle. It does not have the shake-awake feature but it does come with two different risers providing for a mounting height of either 37 mm (exact co-witness) or 40 mm (lower 1/3 co-witness).
 

kymasabe

New member
I'm using a Sig Romeo4c with a quick detach mount and its exact co-witness and everything was in the box, nothing extra to buy. Works great.
 

Black Wolf

New member
Appreciate the feedback, guys! Sorry it took me so long to say so, things have been hectic.

Think I got it. I have a Primary Arms Micro Dot on my Yugo M92 but it has no riser. It mounts directly to a rail I added to the dust cover, it doesn't co witness. But, because of my good experience with that optic, I took at look at PA's (before seeing your replies) and noticed the one with the riser. The weapon they had it on had MBUIS so I figured it was the right height to co witness with them.

I think where I was going wrong was - I didn't realize all AR irons are a standard height. I figured they came in all different heights and I had to match my optic or riser to my specific sights. I guess that is not the case?

I have fold down irons on my (not the one I'm working on) AR and an EoTech. That combo worked out great.

I definately want full co witness on shoulder fired weapons because the back ups are just that.... back ups. They'll be folded down unless I (well, SHE, it's not my gun) has optic failure. My pistol I have set up for lower 1/3 because those sights do not fold down and I didn't want the glass too "busied up".

So I think I am just going to get the Micro Dot with the AR riser.

One thing - I am not sure the difference between the Micro Dot and the Advanced Micro Dot. Worth it to go with the "Advanced"?
 
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