The power of the .40 S&W

[thesheepdog]

Hey sheepdogs, office chair commandos and those not appearing this film,

With all of the instability in our country right now, I have been doing research on some good body armor in the event stuff gets bad.

DHS, SSA, and the NWS have purchased 450,000,000 rounds of .40 S&W HP rounds.

Why?

It's a darn good round.

Says who?

Me.

Recently I have bee doing a lot of research in different types of ballistic armor to establish an idea of what would be best suited for me, a lawful citizen.
Generally speaking there are 4 major types of armor any law abiding civilian can own: Ceramic plates, UHMWPE (dyneema/spectra) plates/vests, steel plates and Kevlar inserts/vests.

Obviously the plates are for rifle rounds and vests are for pistol rounds.

Now with a lot of us on a budget, we really have to consider what is viable for us to buy, and what we're losing when we save some $$$ here and there.

So how does this apply to the .40 S&W?

Well I purchased a UHMWPE (spectra/dyneema plate) that is 1.5" thick (this is pretty standard) and decided to test it out with various types of cartridges.

Here are the results from 50 yard shots:

8 shots of Herters 9mm TNJ:
All rounds were stopped with one round cracking the backside of the plate. Good overall.

2 shots of reloaded 45 ACP HP low recoil:
Both rounds were stopped 1/8" through the plate.

2 shots 45 ACP Corbon +p HP's:
Both rounds were stopped 1/8" into the plate.

1 shot .40 S&W 180 FMJ:
The round completely penetrated the plate. Due to the fractured exit hole, I presume the bullet was ripped to shreds after passing through a jagged piece of the plate on exit.
This round is scary.

2 rounds 6.5 MPC 107gr SMK (similar ballistics to an AK 7.62x39mm, 2400fps 1400-1500ft lbs):
Both rounds were stopped 1/2"-1" into the plate.

2 rounds 6.5 MPC 100gr AMAX:
Both rounds were stopped 1/2"-1" into the plate.

1 round .50 Beowulf 350gr XTP:
Round penetrated with some fragments still in the plate:


So this just goes to show the power of.a .40 cal.

I am not biased towards this round at all as I don't even own one (I have a .357 Sig and a 9mm). But I have always liked the performance of this round despite the snappy recoil it usually has on most handguns.

So what does this post conclude:

Firstly, UHMWPE (spectra/dyneema) plates will stop certain rounds but not .40 S&W FMJ rounds or large magnum rounds (shotgun slugs, .303 Brit and .357 sig to be tested later) per my tests.

Secondly, .40 S&W is a good round. It penetrated what two assault rifle rounds could not. Stunned, shocked, amazed, yes!!!!

Thirdly I am not recommending any specific armor to you guys, I am just informing you of my test results so you think twice before buying expensive armor plates. Spectra plates are running about $300 a pair right now for level III protection. If I were you I would invest in steel or ceramic or make your own spectra plates and test them yourself. Yes you can buy spectra plates from plastic dealers for about $70 a pop. You will have to cut and form the plates into a shape that will fit into a carrier but like I said, do so at your own risk. I take zero responsibility for any of your actions.

 

[Ralgha]

While interesting, it isn't conclusive at all. You fired a single .40, and not much more of anything else.

Consistent results with much higher round counts would be much more telling.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus that ate your iPhone.

 

[thesheepdog]

I can shoot more rounds into the plate.
Like I said. I have more testing to do.

I would expect your kind of answer if I was bashing the .40 S&W and shot one round had it not penetrated and others did. The this is the opposite situation.

Let me add that the reason more rounds of .40 s&w were not fired, is because the first and only round completely penetrated a plate rated for rifle rounds. Enough said. There is no arguing on this at all.

 

[thesheepdog]

And to add a thing or two about round count, this plate has already suffered 26 rounds of ammo with only 2 rounds penetrating.

 

[Ralgha]

I like .40 as much as anyone, but be realistic. One single round doesn't say anything for or against it or any other caliber.

Like I said, your results are interesting and certainly make me feel good about my preferred handgun caliber, but it simply doesn't have any statistical significance.

 

[thesheepdog]

I like .40 as much as anyone, but be realistic. One single round doesn't say anything for or against it or any other caliber.

Like I said, your results are interesting and certainly make me feel good about my preferred handgun caliber, but it simply doesn't have any statistical significance.

Let me ask you something. If a .40 cal fired from 50 yards penetrates a trauma plate that stopped not only a 6.5 MPC but also stopped 8 shots of 5.56, what else do you need as far as information?
The results are right there. Sure I could shoot more rounds into the plate but I guarantee you the results will be the same as ALL the other rounds were consistent with their results.

And I'll add that the .40 was shot at an undamaged section of the plate, right after the .45's.

 

[militant]

Why do people feel the need to declair that this round is better then the rest? I carry a .40 CC. But I would feel comfortable with a 9mm or .45 as well. Witg current "hot" loads from any of these calibers, they all work great. ACCURACY and SHOT PLACEMENT. These should be the debates we see.

 

[thesheepdog]

Why do people feel the need to declair that this round is better then the rest? I carry a .40 CC. But I would feel comfortable with a 9mm or .45 as well. Witg current "hot" loads from any of these calibers, they all work great. ACCURACY and SHOT PLACEMENT. These should be the debates we see.

Seriously? There is no debate going on here.
If you would read my post again you will noticed there is absolutely no biased result here.

This post is just information on real results that I spent my good money on to test.
I am not praising the .40 over any other rounds, I am just informing you guys that a rifle rated trauma plate did not stop an FMJ .40 round, but it did stop everything else except the .50 Beowulf.

 

[militant]

Do you have a video of this test? I have shot a .40 at 1/4 inch steel and it just dented it.

 

[Dragline45]

Just wondering, was the plate already shot multiple times when you shot it with the .40 and penetrated? You mentioned the 9mm cracked the plate, once that plate is cracked any more testing is kind of non conclusive.

Also I heard those ceramic plates are really only good for one time use, some opt for heavier AR550 steel plates since they can take multiple hits and not have to be replaced. I have some AR500 steel plates and those suckers are heavy, cant imagine walking around with a vest full of them. How heavy are the ceramic plates compared?

 

[thesheepdog]

Just wondering, was the plate already shot multiple times when you shot it with the .40 and penetrated? You mentioned the 9mm cracked the plate, once that plate is cracked any more testing is kind of non conclusive.

The .40 was shot in a section that had not been touched. And it was shot after the .45's. Therefore your argument would not suffice as the rifle rounds were shot after the .40 and still, the plate did its job stopping the rounds. And to further prove the results. I shot more 9mm after the .50 Beowulf, and they plate continued to stop the rounds. Please read up on body armor types before drawing any further conclusions.
When the 9mm cracked the backside of the plate it was merely just a dent protruding out the backside of the plate-an impact mark.

 

[Dragline45]

Please read up on body armor types before drawing any further conclusions.

Chill guy, I was asking a perfectly reasonable question. How else can I draw a conclusion in the first place without all the correct facts. Reason I asked was because I can shoot .40 all day at my AR500 plates and it doesn't leave a mark where 5.56 leaves little pock mark dents. I was just surprised the .40 penetrated where the 5.56 did not.

 

[thesheepdog]

Chill guy, I was asking a perfectly reasonable question. How else can I draw a conclusion in the first place without all the correct facts.

If you are as shocked and in unbelief as I was, yes I can understand your push for more facts.
Optimism is great. What else can I tell you to further help you trust my results?

 

[thesheepdog]

Just wondering, was the plate already shot multiple times when you shot it with the .40 and penetrated? You mentioned the 9mm cracked the plate, once that plate is cracked any more testing is kind of non conclusive.

Also I heard those ceramic plates are really only good for one time use, some opt for heavier AR550 steel plates since they can take multiple hits and not have to be replaced. I have some AR500 steel plates and those suckers are heavy, cant imagine walking around with a vest full of them. How heavy are the ceramic plates compared?

Dragline45

This is a spectra plate. It's the newer technology. They are extremely lightweight (3lbs) and extremely expensive.

I own steel plates as well and I don't mind the weight at all. I barely notice it. But I am a pretty fit guy and workout wearing my plates do that's why.

There are two types of ceramic out there:
Level IV which is rated for one hit of AP round or multiple hits of standard rounds.
And there's Level IV multi hit which will endure more AP hits.
There is probably more but this is all I know off the top of my head.

 

[Dragline45]

Well I look forward to hearing more about further testing. Still blows my mind that the .40 outperformed the 5.56.

 

[Bob Wright]

You would have been a little more informative if you had stated the bullet weights of all rounds.

Also, compared JHP with JHP, and FMC with FMC.

Bob Wright

 

[thesheepdog]

Well I look forward to hearing more about further testing. Still blows my mind that the .40 outperformed the 5.56.

It blows my mind too. The plate stopped a rifle round, which it is rated for. But how it could not stop a .40 S&W is just severely crazy.
The round literally melted a hole through the plate. The other rounds like 5.56 basically sealed the entrance hole back up due to the heat.

Heat is what kills spectra plates. So if your round is flying fast enough with enough hardness on the bullet, it will cut right through spectra like a hot knife through butter.

That or you just have a freakin hand cannon round that has more power than you'll ever need, that works too.

If enough people are interested I will purchase another plate and test it out with strictly .40 s&w's.

 

[Mike Irwin]

.40 caliber from 50 yards?

I'm thinking it's got to be a golden twinkee hit.

I'm sorry, but I simply can't see this being anything other than a miracle shot or some incredible flaw in the plate.

Unfortunately, one shot doesn't really prove anything other than that one shot penetrated the plate.

Photographs?

 

[thesheepdog]

You would have been a little more informative if you had stated the bullet weights of all rounds.

Also, compared JHP with JHP, and FMC with FMC.

Bob Wright

Correct. Sorry I was a tad rushed to get this post up.

The low recoil 45's were 230gr
The Corbon 45's were 185gr.
The 9mm was 115gr.
5.56 was 62 FMJ

I don't have tons of ammo resources to test everything on. That is absolutely not the point of this post. The objective of this post was to state the performance of a standard target round and it's effects on body armor as that was the only ammo I had available for testing.

 

[thesheepdog]

.40 caliber from 50 yards?

I'm thinking it's got to be a golden twinkee hit.

I'm sorry, but I simply can't see this being anything other than a miracle shot or some incredible flaw in the plate.

Unfortunately, one shot doesn't really prove anything other than that one shot penetrated the plate.

Photographs?

Yes 50 yards. I am not exaggerating any of this data.

You're right one shot is but one shot.

I will take a picture today and let y'all see the results. In fact I may finish the plate off with some 40's and .357's.