The most common of the REALLY big bores

O

orsogato

New member
Hi all,

I am interested in finding out your opinions on the most common cartridge of the really big bore magnums. By this I mean no .30 caliber cartridges. Something with a larger bore.

I am thinking of cartridges in the lines of .338 WIN MAG, .375 H&H MAG., etc. all the way up to the big Elephant/ Cape Buffalo guns .416 Rigby, .458 Win Mag etc. The Nitro Mags etc.

What do you think is the most common as far as brass availability, bullet selection for handloads etc.?

I've got a new project I am tossing around in my head.

Thanx

[This message has been edited by orsogato (edited August 29, 1999).]
 
C

Chris Orndorff

New member
When you say "really big" bore, then I'd have to draw the beginning line at the .375 H&H. This is the minimum caliber allowed for the taking of some "really serious" game.

I'd also venture a guess that this is a more common caliber than the others you mentioned.
 
4

4V50 Gary

Staff
If we're talking about calibers above .35, then for commonly owned and regularly shot I'd say 45-70. Good enough for Custard, good...uh, never mind.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
S

Sid Post

New member
Your question is really a pretty broad one. What are you really looking for? For dangerous game hunting, I would want more then a 375H&H (yes I know many elephants have fallen to the 7x57 - 7 Mauser). First, get rid of that artifical belt as we are looking for pure function. Now move up in bore diameter.

The near legend in this arena is the 416 Rigby. 404 Geoffery (sp?) is also a popular base for wildcat cartridges. Generally, you were looking at 2400fps for the given bullet weight and bore diameter as being optimal for dangerous game use.

The 338Lapua is based on the 416Rigby case if I'm not mistaken and, the Remington 300 Ultra is based on the 404 Geoffery. Because Remington has provided a good case to work from, I expect to see 7/300 Ultra's, 338/300 Ultra's, 375/300 Ultra's ..... very soon for people looking for high end hard hitting rifle loads.

Sid
 
G

Gattling

New member
Ahem, the .338Lapua Magnum was originally planned to be found on .416Rigby case but it turned out that it's internal structure couldn't cope with the monstrous max.pressure of 470Mpa, thus the .338Lapua is completely new design on it's own.

Those old britt cases are XXXJeffrey ones.

Gattling. :)
 
A

Al Thompson

Staff Alumnus
Hi Orsogato,

The problem I have with answering your question is one of definition. There is a very good case for dividing up the under .338 rounds as light guns, while refering to the .338 through .41 family as mediums. Anything over .41 is a heavy. There are some very valid exceptions (.405 Win comes to mind as well as a .444 or .45-70 ) but most serious students feel that this is pretty accurate.

So for a most common medium - the .338 Win, for a true heavy, the .458. I'm basing simply on number of rifles that are chambered for the rounds - nothing else.

Maybe if you could give us an idea of what your planning, we could give better choices..

Giz

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"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it sounds like
they're snoring." -Harvey Danger, "Flagpole Sitta"
 
J

Joe the Redneck

New member
Well, the Water Mitty in me has been reading about hunting in Africa since I was 14 (Where did the time go, sigh) It seems that there are two classes for rifles. What the Professionals carry, and what the Hunter carries.

The PH tend to stick with the 577 Nitro for elephants and rhinos. As for the big cats and non-dangerous game they all have their own favs.

For the Hunters, 30-06 for the light game, 375 HH for everything else. If you must carry more, 458 Win. You don't want anything rare or unusual outside the U.S.

Hope this helps.
 
D

Donald

New member
375 H&H is very easy to come bye in brass and bullets, 416 Rem Mag, & 458 Win Mag
bullets are easy to find brass is some what rare. I get 6 reloading catalogs uselly two of them has brass most of the time.
Now if I could only find a rifle in one of the Nitro Mags I would be set.

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Join the NRA! I want my kid to have my guns when I go to the shooting range in the sky.
I am the NRA, join today
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Dan Wesson
WWW.DAN-WESSON.COM
 
O

orsogato

New member
Thanks for info all.

No, I am not going to Africa. I am just fascinated by these big bore magnums the "mediums" ,338 Win Mag, .338 Lapua, .375 H&H, etc. and the "Heavies" .416 Rigby, .458 Mag etc.

I was just thinking about trying to get a Ruger No.1 rebarreled to one of these cartridges, and just shooting the heck out of it. That would be why I would need to be able to get brass relatively easy.

I think the .375 H&H seems like the best choice as it could be used on the large North American game if I ever got the bread to go "out west" and hunt either elk, or game in Alaska, etc.
 
L

Long Path

New member
orsogato: I personally like the .338 Win Mag. It's profligate, is the consummate North American big game cartridge, and accounts well for itself in Africa as a medium game plains cartridge, as well! It is really not quite appropriate for Cape Buff, and most jurisdictions would not let you go for a lion with it. But, to be honest, if you used good solids, it would do the job for either.

Also, if you did take it deer hunting, you wouldn't be blowing half the deer off the other side...!
 
P

Paul B.

New member
Orsogato. My vote goes to the .375 H&H. Get a good rifle with controlled feed and never look back. It will handle anything on this continent from ground squirrels to Alaskan Brown Bear. You don't even have to get a Ruger #1 customized. Ruger makes it in that caliber. The Winchester Model 70, and the Ruger can be had with controlled feed. Punch a deer in the shoulder with the right bullet and you cas almost eat it up to the hole. I have the #1 in .375, and a Ruger mod. 77 in a .375x338 wildcat that duplicates H&H specs. Neither rifle has ruined much meat on deer sized game. Recoil in both rifles is there, but tolerable, although the wildcat seems to kick a heck of a lot less to me.
Ammo for the H&H is available literally worldwide, and would probably be the easiest to purchase.
Paul B.
 
A

Al Thompson

Staff Alumnus
Orsogato - I agree with Paul B. The .375 is a great choice and the .458 is not a bad choice. Both get raised eyebrows at the range and both are much more flexible than most folks think. I would avoid the .416 Rigby if you don't reload. Federal likes their ammo way too much for me.

Giz

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"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it sounds like
they're snoring." -Harvey Danger, "Flagpole Sitta"
 
?

.

New member
Anyone care to ante-up the discussion to the true "big-bores", such as the .500, .600 & .700 Nitro Express?

The latter pushes a 1,000-grain boulder at a MV of 2,000fps for a ME(kinetic) of 8,900 ft.lbs. "It will, of course, be more than adequate for any game animal found anywhere on this planet."

It should also provide a substantive increase in business to your local orthopaedic surgeon, as your shoulder will probably require reconstructive surgery after each range session.

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Mykl
~~~~~
"If you really want to know what's going on;
then, you have to follow the money trail."
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[This message has been edited by Mykl (edited September 01, 1999).]
 
L

Long Path

New member
Mykl, I love the thought of shooting BIG big bores, but what about that little provision called "Destructive Devices" that's in my state's Penal Code, and, I think, part of ATF's "no-no" list. It prohibits rifled cartridge weapons of greater than .50 cal. I've always wondered about this restriction with respect to the rifled "slug guns" that have come into vogue as of late, but have been afraid to ask. Maybe I shouldn't , now.... (!)

Regards,

L.P.
 
S

Sid Post

New member
Think of "sporting intent" as with the STREETSWEEPER shotguns that were reclassified as destructive devices even though they weren't rifled. That seems to be a prevalent thought with regards to shotguns.

With the classic doubles, considering the huge expense and the inability to garner a good 6 second sound bite, they seem to be just plain over looked. It also doesn't hurt that guys who generally buy these are wealthy and, total number are very low. If you can scrape up the money for one of those old Nitro doubles, have at it.

Isn't selective enforcement and being politically correct nice?

Sid
 
L

Long Path

New member
Hmmm... I won't bring it up to 'em, but yeah, it looks that way. It would change if someone wealthy, white, and connected (esp. in or with the various media) got scared, and/or was convinced that BG's were going to use the enormous penetration power to spoil their armored "inner sancta" (sanctums? sanctai?). Please note the mounting concern over the .50 BMGs.

I hate the selective enforcement, and don't own any of these myself, but I'll be d@mned if I'll call their attention to an area they've been letting go, because all that will happen is the closing of that loop, too.

I'm just not quite ready to struggle in another noose.

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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited September 02, 1999).]
 
A

Al Thompson

Staff Alumnus
Mykl,

The really big stuff usually moves you enough that your shoulder really dosen't take a battering. I have shot my .458 off the bench in a t-shirt with out much pain. Stock design and concentration on the basics will usually effect your perception of recoil much more than the actual physics of the cartridge would suggest.

Case in point - my best buddy has a .416 Rigby made by Art Alphin. The "Coil-Chek" stock makes that the (!) most comfortable big bore I have ever fired. Conversely, the worst beating I ever took was with a Rossi Overland 12 ga SxS shooting slugs. Lots of drop in the narrow little stock.

MPI offers a synthetic version of the "Coil-Chek" style stock. My partner just sent his .505 off to MPI for one. :)

Giz

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"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it sounds like
they're snoring." -Harvey Danger, "Flagpole Sitta"
 
F

flatlander

New member
I've owned my Win M70 Super Express in .375 H&H for 10 years now, and have shot several hundred rounds of cast bullet loads through it, while the number of full-house jacketed rounds fired is probably not more than 30. I read John Taylor's "African Cartridges & Rifles" and had a real lust for a "big" rifle. I've never regretted shelling out the dough for mine, and have gotten a lot of satisfaction out of the ease of working up accurate cast bullet loads in it. Our club used to hold reduced range metallic silhouette matches for cast bullets only, and the .375 worked great for knocking the rams off at 200yds. The .375 is more than likely the most common big bore rifle world wide. It has a well-deserved reputation for accuracy, loading components are widely available(as is loaded ammo), and is chambered in many popular rifles. The wood on my rifle is very attractive, the Redfield 2-3/4X scope is just right for this rifle and has a good field of view, the trigger is crisp - you see where I'm going with this? I love my .375.

[This message has been edited by flatlander (edited September 06, 1999).]
 
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