The learning?? Channel

[Rob Pincus]

I have to admit that I have had TLC on my list of "okay" channels, until tonight. SEveral of their programs have had an anti-gun-rights slant, but I have given them a lot of rope over the normal network crap.

Tonight they are running a program on the 5 high profile school shooting cases over the last few years.


They just made two comments, both completly unsubstantiated and, to me, ludicrous:

1. "Hundreds of thousands of children are taking guns to school"

2. "In the U.S., where there are more weapons than there are people, it is easier for a child to obtain a gun than it is for them to buy a beer.


The first one.. Well, I have no idea where that came from.

The second one is full of typical liberal agenda misleading crap. "weapon" is not Gun.. There may be more guns than people in the US, but I guarantee there are more weapons than people in EVERY country.

On the other topic in #2... I am sure that if you are to compare how easy it is for the average child to buy a gun to buying a beer OR to obtaining a beer to obtaining a gun, you would come up with a drastically different conclusion.


They then went on to to criticize the reactions of LE. they criticized the following:

Punishing kids as adults
Metal Detectors
Locker Searches

They suggested that we owe it ot our children not to be tough on them, but to find "long lasting" solutions to prevent tragedies with guns.

That was the last straw for the mis-information channel as far as I am concerned.

 

[Colin Thompson]

Rob,

Wake up call, the media is not on our side. Follow the money trail.

Colin

 

[Rob Pincus]

Sooo, what? Avoid all "media" ??

That means you get your news and information from....

The Internet: yeah right.

Word of Mouth: The old fashioned internet, see above.

Reliable Sources who used to work at Area 51, are followed by vans with tinted windows and black helicopters and are prepared to die, if necessary, for the cause.: Okay, I'll give ya that one.


Seriously, what are you trying to say Colin?

 

[Grayfox]

"We owe it to our children not to be tough on them"? Who do they think they're kidding. Not being tough on kids is one of the major problems with them these days. It's the very nature of children to constantly test the limits just to see how far they can go. Good parents must set and enforce limits on their children in order to teach them right from wrong. We have far too many permissive parents today who would never dream of spanking their child and the children of this type parenting are the problem kids. The school system is just as guilty of this. Children must learn that bad behavior has consquences.But, if the punishment is too light, they think "Well, that wasn't so bad, next time I'll be more careful and not get caught." Punishment must fit the crime so to speak and sometimes a good old fashioned spanking can do wonders. If a child commits an adult crime, they must recieve the adult penalty for it. If for no other reason than to serve as an example to other kids.

Sorry, I seem to have slipped into rant mode there. But, chidren do learn by example and I don't care much for the example our society is currently setting.

 

[Jeff OTMG]

Saw the show myself. I tend to believe the 100,000 kids taking a gun to school. Figure millions of kids in school nationwide. School in session about 160 days a year, times millions of kids, the 100,000 may be right. Thought the show was okay until the guns got blamed and that comment about easier to get a gun than a beer really got to me. Guy says we are looking for quick fixes, how is a metal detector a quick fix? If the parents are not doing their job at home, or if the school is not protecting these unpopular kids, is this guy suggesting that that the govt go in and do it for them? I hope not!

 

[Colin Thompson]

I’m not suggesting that we avoid all media. Just don’t ever expect a fair shake with them.
Expect to be treated more like Juanita Broaddrick, as a bone thrown to the dogs after the
fact.

When filtered with an education in history, the Internet provides far more truth than the
popular media. The problem for most folks is it takes mental ability, time and effort.
Thanks to the resources provided by the Internet, a short cut is available. It takes less
time than pouring over the tomes written in the last 200 years but it still requires more
effort than the above average citizen is willing to expend. Might I suggest that folks start
with The Creature from Jykell Island by G. Edward Griffen and Tragedy and Hope by
Carroll Quigley. There are enough names, times and places involved in just these two
books, to start a journey through real history, following the money trail to present times.

There are only two ways I can see to overcome the current blah blah media babble. One,
citizens will have to wake up from their soma, i.e. no more Monday night football, beer
and jet skies. Fat chance! Two, we can fight back with sensationalist emotion instead of
rational. Emotion, even if it’s similar the BS the media uses, sells. At least if the selling
emotion is based on truth, it’s ethical. That’s a far cry from the trash we get from the
media now.

 

[Colin Thompson]

Just one more thought quoted from Dr. Jon’s excellent post in the Sundown at Coffin
Rock thread, “Everything you saw on the TV or in the movies was against us. God knows
the news people were!”. Enough said.

 

[DC]

Rob...

When was the last time you saw anything on TV that wasn't sensationalist and biased? Pay particular attention to your local news program....they even sensationalize the mundane. Absolutely nothing is ever presented as dry fact.

As for subliminal socialist/fascist preaching the show NBC "Law and Order" takes the cake. It used to be a favorite show, but now when the DA takes over there are always "messages" about too much freedom and restrictions have to be put on the Bill of Rights. The scary thing is that taken in the context of the show's particular issue, you almost find yourself agreeing.

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

 

[Daren Thompson]

In my high school taking guns to school was not a bad thing. The shop teacher was a gun-nut and gunsmith and let us bring our guns to school to have the stocks redone or whatever. I personally refinished the stock on my granddad's .22 and made a scope mount for my Mini-14 ,plus drilled and tapped the reciever with his supervision. Hell the principle did not even pay no attention to me when I carried it down the hall, it looks cool folding stock solid black. My mom is a secretary at the school and after I graduated told me that the school board made a rule that guns in kids cars is ok. some big city drug-gun dog was going ape at all the cars in the parking lot and so the kids would not get in trouble they said guns in cars is fine. Sounds different from what U hear on the news

Later
Daren

 

[Rich Lucibella]

"It is often easier for our children to obtain a gun than it is to find a good school." Joycelyn Elders

"Maybe that's because guns are sold at a profit, while schools are provided by the government." David Boaz

 

[Jeff Thomas]

I think the problem right now is that it is 'cool' and 'smart' to point out how guns are bad. After all, it is 'obvious', no?

When I saw 'Politically Incorrect' the other evening, there was one pro-self defense guy, and they rest were anti-self defense. [Now, perhaps someone can help me understand how the show gets its name?] The conversation was inane. Whenever the pro-self defense guy would say anything positive about guns one of the other guests, such as the air-brained actress, would say something intelligent such as (and this is a quote) "I think people who like guns must like them because they have small penises". The crowd loved it. The other guests laugh and nod, knowingly, from their intellectually superior perch.

There is no intelligent conversation possible with such people. Many members of the media, and their audiences, are not concerned with the facts or logic of their positions on gun control. This is simply 'entertainment' to them. Hopefully there will still be something left of the RKBA when they move on to their next 'entertainment' target.

Well, we've always got the History Channel ... I hope.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited February 28, 1999).]

 

[Rob Pincus]

DC,

When was the last time you read something on TFL that wasn't biased?

 

[DC]

Rob...
Your point? At least here citations are given, alternate opinions are allowed, and most importantly we don't hide an agenda under the cloak of unbiased journalism.

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

 

[Rob Pincus]

I contend that we have about the same tolerance for differing opinion as many media outlets.

I read an article in Nashville's paper last week that very positivley covered a bill (proposed by a Democrat!) that is going to loosen restrictions on carrying in public places such as schools and plces where alcohol is consumed for CCW holders. The state legislator found himself understanding how ludicrous it was that you cannot go into Walmart with a gun because they sell beer or drive onto scholl property to pick up your child with a gun in the car.

This article broke all the "rules". If it was biased, it was in our favor, it was a front page story in a major newspaper, and the bill was based on common sense and proposed by a Democrat who has a very liberal record.

I have personally arranged for few prime time specials on Network affiliates for shooting related programming. Many public TV (land of liberal thinking) shows focus on hunting and occassional competitive shooting.

We know about TNN and ESPN covering various hunting/shooting topics.

The biggest money in sports today in Motorsports. Several NASCAR teams and at least one Indy team have been or are sponsored by hunting/shooting related companies, getting fantastic exposure on all levels of media.

Many Radio programs, especially talk radio, are very pro-gun and conservative.

I look for practical and reasonable ideas. "Boycott the Media" is neither. To simply sit back and say "turn off you TVs because it is all crap" is not helpful. Better to watch with a critical eye. I use the same level of critical thinking when I read stuff on the Internet or have a conversation at a gunshop.

The "wake-up call" needs to go to the people who have given up on the media and are not trying to get pro-gun stories printed or produced.

------------------
-Essayons

 

[ModIMark0]

I have an answer (as to the origins of) the first point of information you found debatable (hundreds of thousands of students are taking guns to school every day). The figure has ranged from 135,000 (American Bar Association, USA Today and Senators Joseph Biden and John Chaffee), to 186,000 (Senator Christopher Dodd), and up to 270,000 (MTV's "Enough is Enough"). All of the figures are untrue.
The 135,000 figure seems to be a loosely extrapolated one form the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that were from a survey asking teenagers in grades nine through twelve "During the last thirty days, how many times have you carried a weapon such as a gun, knife or club, for self protection or because you thought you might need it in a fight?" The 135,000 factoid assumes that every respondent who carried a gun at least once carried a gun every day. Nor did it confirm that the gun or other weapon carried was carried at school.
Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck estimates that, realistically, about 16,000-17,000 students carry a gun to school on a given day.
As a note, this information was published in late 1995, so it may be dated and other more current data may be what the information is based upon.
All information here is from pages 322-323 of Chapter 6 ('Children and Guns' written by David Kopel) of "Guns: Who Should Have Them?", edited by David Kopel. Prometheus Books. New York: 1995). I highly recommend this book for additional information and insights into kids and guns (as well as other gun-related topics).