the falicy of comparing handguns(in a military combat situation).

K

KShaft

New member
okay youre a mewss crew or a lav crew who just had your lav incompacitated. lets say the marine corps made more ****ing sense and we were issued m4s (because were in a vehicle that there is no room in there and we are not scouts but actual crewmen).
okay were in a firefight and were down to our personally owned handguns(because you convinced your crew to invest in some real firepower [no 9mm, or m 9s that is] while awaiting some good ol ch53s to pick us up...
does anyone really think that a glock is going to perform any less than a custom 1911?
okay you make a centerline torso shot with your glock or 96g or usp 40 or 45, and you hit an inch or two left or right of where you were aiming. and the 1911 hits about point of aim. either way the guy gets put down and it takes two rounds(at least) to put him down (because you didnt bother just shooting one round to see if he was happy). also the glock performs fine in the desert or mud or wherever you are in your running around with 7th marines lav batallion (or was it company i forgot its been a while)while the 1911 could run into problems.

my point is, when you are limited to handguns, the differences between handgun to handgun can seem huge. however when forced to use hand guns after using say a rifle, the differences between handguns seem marginal at best.
carrying ccw, yeah it makes a big difference in my mind and at that level you can say i can shoot a 1 inch group compared to a 3 inch group as i would rather carry a 1911.
but when it comes to defensive shooting ( and not a forced tactical entry), the differences are marginal.
just a thought,
k.s.
 
P

PreserveFreedom

Guest
In a military combat situation, I would put reliability and durability first. In that case, you should be fine with any Beretta, Colt, Glock, Kimber, Sig, S&W, and a few others, I am sure. Second to reliability and durability I would place capacity. Capacity is the sole reason I would choose a 9mm Glock or 9mm Beretta in such an application. Again, that's where I would start to seperate the handguns. Others may prioritize differently.
 
Y

younggenious

New member
I second what you said. I actually just had a discussion/arguement with a Retired Sergeant First Class from the Army on the same subgect, concerning 1911's and Glock's.
 
S

Scooter2

New member
Reliability goes hand in hand with durability. That should be number 1 on the list. A custom built 1911 might not handle the rigors of military duty. That is assuming the 1911 is built nice and tight for accuracy. Tight guns shoot straight, but are less tolerant of mud, ice, sand, ect. Loose guns are the way to go. Even with carry gun, loose is good. A gun that shoots 3" at 25 yards is more than acceptable for CCW because the range at which most shootings occur is much less than 25 yards. It's hard to pose a immediate threat at 25 yards, more likely at 10-20 feet. At that range, any gun will shoot less than 1" groups.
 
8

8200 rpm

New member
If there is a fallacy in comparing handguns in a defensive combat scenario, why are we comparing 1911s to Glocks, and tight guns to loose guns???

I'll do my part... I think we're missing the point of the 1911: cocked and locked = better first shot hit probability. A crisp stock 4.5# trigger on a new Kimber is far better than a spongy, rubbery Glock 5.5# trigger or a smooth DA 12# SIG trigger.

As a keyboard commando, if I had to put one in the head of an advancing foe armed with an AK at 15 yards before the puke can reload and spray me and my crew, I think a well-tuned, combat-capable SA would be my first choice as a sidearm. Of course, I would rather have a HK UMP .45ACP with a full 25 round magazine.
 
4

4V50 Gary

Staff
By the time you've got to resort to handguns, you're probably within grenade range. Furthermore, the enemy rifleman enjoys the advantage. It becomes a matter of how long you can survive before your position is overruned.
 
M

mept

New member
Were you dreaming when you thought the marines would send in a CH 53 for an in capacitated LAV crew, let alone scouts??? Or were these marines from some other country, or do the marines have so many ch 53's they can use them for medivac? Sorry, what was your initial point of contention?
 
D

dawg23

New member
Mept:

I think his point WAS contention. Occurs more often than one might think among the mentally challenged.

Dawg23
 
K

KShaft

New member
well considering i am a former Marine i might have some grasp on how they operate.
how bout you?
I was a MEWSS operator and had many a fun time driving the lav and taking care of the 240.
but i hated morse code.....
you think that maybe they wouldnt want a bunch of intel guys getting captured???
maybe???

mentally challenged a there dawg.
you ever been in a ground unit?
if not shut your ****ing mouth.
id love to meet you in person.
id give you a lesson in manners.
it be a 10 year aiki-jujitsu lesson wrapped up in ten seconds.
have a nice day.
 
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