The Civil War
- Thread starter Azrael256
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Mike Irwin
Staff
The letter than ends the first episode never fails to rip my heart out.
MeekAndMild
New member
I liked the music.
dsgrntldPW
New member
It was NOT the "Civil War", it was the "War of Northern Aggression". Extremely informative and moving, this was probably some of the best televison I've seen ever.
Oh, that letter... whooooo. I had forgotten it was at the end of the first one and g/f and I watched it tonight... boys aren't supposed to cry, but this one did.
All the history majors here gathered 'round the TV to watch it tonight... seeing as that is a whopping two of us, we called in some mass comm. students to observe Burns' style. Basically it amounted to a bunch of bawling college kids about 8:45.
All the history majors here gathered 'round the TV to watch it tonight... seeing as that is a whopping two of us, we called in some mass comm. students to observe Burns' style. Basically it amounted to a bunch of bawling college kids about 8:45.
MitchSchaft
New member
Mike Irwin
Staff
Actually, DSG, it was the "War of Southern Stupidity."
At least that's what we call it up North.
Now go be a good boy and whip us up some grits and 'pone.
At least that's what we call it up North.
Now go be a good boy and whip us up some grits and 'pone.
Mike Irwin
Staff
His name was, IIRC, Sullivan Ballew.
When the series first aired, someone did an indepth look at Ballew and his family. He was from Rhode Island. I seem to recall that he was a former Governor, and his son was a Senator, or other way round. Well connected family, wealthy, cream of the crop, etc.
Sarah never remarried.
The first time I saw it my girlfriend, now my ex-wife, unfortunatly, and I watched it together. We both cried.
When the series first aired, someone did an indepth look at Ballew and his family. He was from Rhode Island. I seem to recall that he was a former Governor, and his son was a Senator, or other way round. Well connected family, wealthy, cream of the crop, etc.
Sarah never remarried.
The first time I saw it my girlfriend, now my ex-wife, unfortunatly, and I watched it together. We both cried.
MuzzleBlast
New member
Um, Mike, when did Northern Virginia become "up North?"
Smartass answer: "1865."
Mike Irwin
Staff
I'm a Pennsylvanian, trapped by fortune, below the Manson-Nixon line.
I blame the Founding Fathers for this, specifically Hamilton and Jefferson.
They're the ones who came up with the deal to move the Nation's Capitol from New York or Philadelphia to this god-forsaken malarial swamp.
And you know, according to some Jawhjhans (Georgians, for those of you who can't speak Southern) I've met, Virginia IS part of the north...
I blame the Founding Fathers for this, specifically Hamilton and Jefferson.
They're the ones who came up with the deal to move the Nation's Capitol from New York or Philadelphia to this god-forsaken malarial swamp.
And you know, according to some Jawhjhans (Georgians, for those of you who can't speak Southern) I've met, Virginia IS part of the north...
Mike, speaking as an Alabamian who wandered dazed and confused in Fairfax county for a year, a month, and a week (but who's counting...), I can assure you Northern Virginia is much more Northern than it is Virginia. It being a very transient area, there was no sense of community. You never met your old football coach in a grocery store line, no "it's a small world" type of "I know a friend of yours" encounter. I need to buy a decal to be permitted to park my car on the street???? Please. And this wasn't in one of the more onerous PUDs (Planned Urban Developments). Want to paint the front door? No problemo, just go to the local hardware store, they know EXACTLY what color it MUST be, by manufacturer and product code. Can't leave the garage door raised 4 inches to allow the cat to get to the feeding bowl. Sheesh. Glad I escaped. <shudders>
Is it like this in the Northeast?
Edited to add: Among the few truisms JFK uttered was: "Washington is a town of Northern charm and Southern efficiency."
Is it like this in the Northeast?
Edited to add: Among the few truisms JFK uttered was: "Washington is a town of Northern charm and Southern efficiency."
While it was being fought, it was known as the War of the Rebellion - at least it was in the North. The Southerners called it the War of Succession. Don't rightly know when it was called the American Civil War. BTW, according to a transplanted Virginian I know, war is pronounced as "wah-ahh" in Southern Virginia.
Ken Burns "Civil War" was a great project but it, unfortunately, perpetuated many myths and inaccuracies. There was a rebuttal program that aired a few weeks later but it wasn't advertised and few people saw it.
Mike Irwin
The man's name was Sullivan Ballou.
It's the Mason-Dixon Line or, to some, the Mason and Dixon line.
Although the War of Northern Arrogance fits, it's more correctly, the War For Southern Independence.
Mike Irwin
The man's name was Sullivan Ballou.
It's the Mason-Dixon Line or, to some, the Mason and Dixon line.
Although the War of Northern Arrogance fits, it's more correctly, the War For Southern Independence.
Can you say "Fuzzy Zoeller"?
Mike Irwin
Staff
The War of Northern Arrogance?
Who was arrogant, and stupid, enough to think that they could prevail in a war in which they were outnumbered nearly 3 to 1 in population, had roughly 15 to 20 percent the industrial capacity, etc. etc. etc.?
No offense, but that ranks right up there with Napoleon's AND Hitler's "Let's invade Russia, we can winter over in Moscow" or Japan's "If we bomb them at Pearl Harbor, they're too weak and dividided and fat and lazy to fight back" for the all-time warfare OOPSIES.
About the only think that the South had a distinct numerical advantage over the north in was Mint Juleps.
As for Fuzzy Zoeller, he made a comment based on a racial stereotype. That's not allowed.
I made a comment on a regional stereotype. That is allowed.
Who was arrogant, and stupid, enough to think that they could prevail in a war in which they were outnumbered nearly 3 to 1 in population, had roughly 15 to 20 percent the industrial capacity, etc. etc. etc.?
No offense, but that ranks right up there with Napoleon's AND Hitler's "Let's invade Russia, we can winter over in Moscow" or Japan's "If we bomb them at Pearl Harbor, they're too weak and dividided and fat and lazy to fight back" for the all-time warfare OOPSIES.
About the only think that the South had a distinct numerical advantage over the north in was Mint Juleps.
As for Fuzzy Zoeller, he made a comment based on a racial stereotype. That's not allowed.
I made a comment on a regional stereotype. That is allowed.
The South lost for many reasons. While they knew they were outnumbered, they figured they could whip the Yanks with cornstalks (one crippled Conf. vet. sarcastically reminded a fire-eater who advocated war of that statement and the fire-eater, who was still a politician responded, "Yes we could have, but the Yankees didn't fight us with cornstalks."). After all, the Yankees were viewed contemptuously by the Southerners as mere "shopkeepers." At the outbreak, Porter Alexander, later Gen. Alexander, CSA, Chief of Artillery for Longrstreet, was a second lieutenant of Engineers in the U.S. Army. His C.O., warned him that the South was outnumbered ("Your whole population is only about eight millions, while the North has twenty millions. Of your eight millions, three millions are slaves who may become an element of danger. You have no army, no navy, no treasury, and practically none of the manufactures and machine shops necessary for the support of armies, and for war on a large scale. You are but scattered agricultural communities, and you will be cut off from the rest of the world by blockade. Your cause must end in defeat...") and ultimately would lose. He was was very prophetic.
The South falsely pinned its hope on a quick victory and did not gamble on Northern resolve (both sides thought it would be over within 90 days). It also felt that since it was the largest producer of cotton, foreign recognition (France & England) would be forthcoming along with foreign intervention.
The South falsely pinned its hope on a quick victory and did not gamble on Northern resolve (both sides thought it would be over within 90 days). It also felt that since it was the largest producer of cotton, foreign recognition (France & England) would be forthcoming along with foreign intervention.
The arrogance was Abe Lincolns. He could have completely prevented any bloodshed but he chose to force the South to fire the first shot. There were a number of states that had threatened or tried to secede before. On each occasion, diplomacy prevailed and the Union was preserved.
The South very nearly did win the war - on several occasions - but mostly due to incompetence of the western generals, they didn't know it or couldn't capitalize on it.
Any stereotyping of other people is bad form.
The South very nearly did win the war - on several occasions - but mostly due to incompetence of the western generals, they didn't know it or couldn't capitalize on it.
Any stereotyping of other people is bad form.
Abe offered the olive branch immediately upon being elected and believed that the presevation of the Union was far more important than emancipation. He would have tolerated slavery if this was the price of preserving the Union. Recall that the emancipation was not declared until after Antietam (Sharpsburg) and that there were numerous riots in the North (Baltimore, New York, etc.) by many Northerners who believed in preserving the Union but were uninterested in the freeing slaves. Furthermore, emancipation did not apply to the slave owning states that sided with the Union (Maryland, West Virginia, Kentucky and Delaware). As for Beauregard who fired upon Sumpter, well, he was a hot headed fire eating Southerner.