Eric Larsen
New member
Let me start this by saying Im not an expert. My experience is my own and thats all I will use in this thread. Ive owned snub nosed 357 revolvers on and off for 15 years and currently favor an SP101 as a CCW.
My intent with this thread is to shed some light on the truths, regarding 357 Mag ammo in regards to a short barrelled revolver.
I claim to know nothing and if anyone has verifiable information that contradicts what I am stating here...please set me straight.
**First the biggest issue brought up regarding the 357 chambering in smaller revolver is RECOIL. There are three main factors that have a direct effect on recoil relating to the gun itself.
"Actual recoil"...or IE, the forces transferred to the gun directly by the bullet as its fired.
"Percieved recoil"...this is the recoil that is transferred from the gun to the shooter...and ultimately, the shooters "perception" of felt recoil.
Actual recoil is effected by the guns WEIGHT, the BARREL LENGTH and the specific load used while shooting the gun. The lighter the gun, the more actual recoil it will have. Barrel length is not a variable in this thread as were discussing barrel lengths within a given range and different loads & bullet weights will be discussed later on.
Percieved recoil can be effected by ALOT of variables. This is up to the shooters and is a personal thought process. IMO, the main physical and quantifiable thing you can do to a snub to reduce percieved recoil is the grip. A bigger and softer...RUBBER..
grip absorb or take away the actual recoil that is tranmitted to the shooter.
How do I know how strong my ammo really is?
Muzzle energy is the most common way that Ammo makers and gun enthusiasts "state how much power/energy a specific bullet has" or "is the total energy that is transferable from the bullet to its intended target", in a constant and quantifialble formula
How to figure any bullets energy from any gun!
Velocity or the bullets speed, usually rated in feet per second
Heres the forumula: FPS x FPS x Bullet weight (125 for a 125gr bullet) = Total. Take the Total and divided by 450240 = FPE
Foot pounds of energy or Muzzle Energy is the resulting number.
The amount of Energy that is actually transferred to the target depends on many variables, including but not limited to: Velocity, Bullets design and what you are shooting.
Common misconceptions:
1) 357 Mag ammo has no ballistic advantage over 38 Spev +P/+P+ when fired from a short barrelled revolver:
Absolutely NOT TRUE. When fired from the same gun, the HOTTEST 357 ammo will have 2 times the Foot Pounds of Energy as the HOTTEST 38 +P ammo. Testing 5 snub nosed revolvers with 357 and 38+P ammo, the 357 mag averaged up to 450 FPE while the 38+P averaged up to 220 FPE.
2) 357 Ammo is not worth the increased recoil, muzzle blast and flash when compared to 38 Spec ammo. (Usually when discussed as Defensive ammo for a Concealed Carry Weapon):
This is a matter of the shooters actual experience, the guns design (weight, grip.. etc), the guns intended purpose and the ACTUAL loads chosen.
This is not an easy explanation but heres my perception. It is true the 357 Mag does have substatial recoil, especially when fired from a smaller gun. The round is loaded to a very high case pressure, but all 357 Mag rounds are not created equally..thus they all recoil differently. I have personally seen a couple of shooters who can shoot a lightweight 357 snubby as well as another good shooter can shoot a 9mm s/auto. In my opinion, the key factors are PRACTICE and choosing the correct ammo for your experience level.
3) A reduced velocity/medium velocity 357 round is equal to a 38 Spec +P round, so theres still no advantage.
This holds true is the bullets weight, velocity and design are all identical. Some are very close.
A guide for choosing 357 ammo for a snubby.
While there are more loads made in 357 Mag than I can research and list, a couple of common and basic rules still apply in general.
Different bullet designs are for different purposes.
Choose a bullet design for your guns intended purpose. IMO, snubs are primarily designed as and used for defensive guns. Jacketed Hollow Points are by far the best bullet design for a defensive gun.
Why JHP's and how do they work?
The hollow cavity in the bullet, upon striking the FLUID part of its target, fills and due to momentum and pressure is forced outward. This makes the size of the bullet grow and with more size comes more friction. The increased friction then causes it to slow and stop. This process is how JHP's transfer their energy to the target.
This process causes the target/body TRAUMATIC SHOCK and damages the area the bullet struck and travels through. The intended effect of this is to STOP the target.
How it expands depends on the targets compisition, where the target is struck, the bullets design and velocity etc.
Bullet weight: Typically this factors in for a couple of reasons.
The lighter the bullet, usually the less the recoil...this is a general rule for all guns. *But this is not always the rule for 357 ammo when fired from a snubby*
Lately, major manufactures have loaded Defensive 125 gr JHP's to a very high pressure. Some do this to give an increase in velocity when fired from a short barrelled gun. Examples: Speer 125gr JHP Gold Dots, Hornady 125gr JHP's, Federal Classic High Velocity 125gr JHP's and so on.
Lighter bullet weights due recoil less in most cases. 110gr JHP's are a great option for less recoil and thus, quicker follow up shots if they are needed. Recoil is reduced substantially over the "Full House" loads while still having a good ballistic advantage over the 38 Spec +P load.
****IMPORTANT NOTE**** Always refer to your owners manual when choosing a bullet weight to be fired from a light weight gun.
Some newer light weight snubs can only fire heavier than 120gr bullets and function properly. Function of the gun is the most important factor in any gun for a defensive purpose**********
Heavier bullet weights 158gr and heavier, dont always provide more percieved recoil than those of lighter weights. Different powders and burn ratios make bullets recoil differently.
Speer/CCI Blazer 158gr JHP's recoil substantially less than the Speer Gold Dot 158gr JHP's.....my recommendation is to try a certain load in your gun and evaluate its recoil on a personal basis.
Accuracy of different bullets and weights.
In my experience most makers of snubs "sight in" their guns for 125gr bullets. This can be confusing to the beginner. (Remeber Muzzle rise?) While all bullets weights will shoot in a straight line from the barrel, meaning they shouldnt deviate from there intended path of travel in a left or right direction. Most lighter bullets tend to "shoot low" from a snubby. The opposite also holds true for heavier bullets.
A quick explanation of how this happens and why its important in choosing ammo for your snub.
A basic rule of physics is "with every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". When gun makers design a gun they must design the sights to match where the bullets hits, right?
Most makers of snubs use the physical action or force transferred from a 125gr bullet when determing the POI/POA relation into the guns design. Point of impact (POI) is where the bullet hits and Point of aim (POA) is where the sights of the gun were aiming. Of course, we want these two to be the same point when shooting a gun!
When lighter bullets are fired from a gun, less of the opposite force is sent back to the gun...IE the gun will experience less muzzle rise. The 110gr will have less physical effect than the maker has factored into the guns design with the 125gr.
With less muzzle rise at the point the bullet leaves the barrel, you have a "bullet that shoots lower than where you had the sights on the target". The opposite holds true for most heavier bullets. The heavier weight transfers more force...thus more muzzle rise and a bullet that can "shoot high".
This is an important factor when choosing a round for your snubby for the simplest reasons. You must know where your bullets are going to hit in relation to where your sights are aimed.
Thats it. My suggestions for choosing a round for your snub. Listen to the advice of shooters who you trust and to things that make sense to you! Try as many different loads as you can and make your own conclusions that are the BEST FOR YOUR SITUATION! Everyone is different and will have different perceptions regarding guns, ammo and your given choices.
Thanks for your time and Shoot well.......................Eric
My intent with this thread is to shed some light on the truths, regarding 357 Mag ammo in regards to a short barrelled revolver.
I claim to know nothing and if anyone has verifiable information that contradicts what I am stating here...please set me straight.
**First the biggest issue brought up regarding the 357 chambering in smaller revolver is RECOIL. There are three main factors that have a direct effect on recoil relating to the gun itself.
"Actual recoil"...or IE, the forces transferred to the gun directly by the bullet as its fired.
"Percieved recoil"...this is the recoil that is transferred from the gun to the shooter...and ultimately, the shooters "perception" of felt recoil.
Actual recoil is effected by the guns WEIGHT, the BARREL LENGTH and the specific load used while shooting the gun. The lighter the gun, the more actual recoil it will have. Barrel length is not a variable in this thread as were discussing barrel lengths within a given range and different loads & bullet weights will be discussed later on.
Percieved recoil can be effected by ALOT of variables. This is up to the shooters and is a personal thought process. IMO, the main physical and quantifiable thing you can do to a snub to reduce percieved recoil is the grip. A bigger and softer...RUBBER..
grip absorb or take away the actual recoil that is tranmitted to the shooter.
How do I know how strong my ammo really is?
Muzzle energy is the most common way that Ammo makers and gun enthusiasts "state how much power/energy a specific bullet has" or "is the total energy that is transferable from the bullet to its intended target", in a constant and quantifialble formula
How to figure any bullets energy from any gun!
Velocity or the bullets speed, usually rated in feet per second
Heres the forumula: FPS x FPS x Bullet weight (125 for a 125gr bullet) = Total. Take the Total and divided by 450240 = FPE
Foot pounds of energy or Muzzle Energy is the resulting number.
The amount of Energy that is actually transferred to the target depends on many variables, including but not limited to: Velocity, Bullets design and what you are shooting.
Common misconceptions:
1) 357 Mag ammo has no ballistic advantage over 38 Spev +P/+P+ when fired from a short barrelled revolver:
Absolutely NOT TRUE. When fired from the same gun, the HOTTEST 357 ammo will have 2 times the Foot Pounds of Energy as the HOTTEST 38 +P ammo. Testing 5 snub nosed revolvers with 357 and 38+P ammo, the 357 mag averaged up to 450 FPE while the 38+P averaged up to 220 FPE.
2) 357 Ammo is not worth the increased recoil, muzzle blast and flash when compared to 38 Spec ammo. (Usually when discussed as Defensive ammo for a Concealed Carry Weapon):
This is a matter of the shooters actual experience, the guns design (weight, grip.. etc), the guns intended purpose and the ACTUAL loads chosen.
This is not an easy explanation but heres my perception. It is true the 357 Mag does have substatial recoil, especially when fired from a smaller gun. The round is loaded to a very high case pressure, but all 357 Mag rounds are not created equally..thus they all recoil differently. I have personally seen a couple of shooters who can shoot a lightweight 357 snubby as well as another good shooter can shoot a 9mm s/auto. In my opinion, the key factors are PRACTICE and choosing the correct ammo for your experience level.
3) A reduced velocity/medium velocity 357 round is equal to a 38 Spec +P round, so theres still no advantage.
This holds true is the bullets weight, velocity and design are all identical. Some are very close.
A guide for choosing 357 ammo for a snubby.
While there are more loads made in 357 Mag than I can research and list, a couple of common and basic rules still apply in general.
Different bullet designs are for different purposes.
Choose a bullet design for your guns intended purpose. IMO, snubs are primarily designed as and used for defensive guns. Jacketed Hollow Points are by far the best bullet design for a defensive gun.
Why JHP's and how do they work?
The hollow cavity in the bullet, upon striking the FLUID part of its target, fills and due to momentum and pressure is forced outward. This makes the size of the bullet grow and with more size comes more friction. The increased friction then causes it to slow and stop. This process is how JHP's transfer their energy to the target.
This process causes the target/body TRAUMATIC SHOCK and damages the area the bullet struck and travels through. The intended effect of this is to STOP the target.
How it expands depends on the targets compisition, where the target is struck, the bullets design and velocity etc.
Bullet weight: Typically this factors in for a couple of reasons.
The lighter the bullet, usually the less the recoil...this is a general rule for all guns. *But this is not always the rule for 357 ammo when fired from a snubby*
Lately, major manufactures have loaded Defensive 125 gr JHP's to a very high pressure. Some do this to give an increase in velocity when fired from a short barrelled gun. Examples: Speer 125gr JHP Gold Dots, Hornady 125gr JHP's, Federal Classic High Velocity 125gr JHP's and so on.
Lighter bullet weights due recoil less in most cases. 110gr JHP's are a great option for less recoil and thus, quicker follow up shots if they are needed. Recoil is reduced substantially over the "Full House" loads while still having a good ballistic advantage over the 38 Spec +P load.
****IMPORTANT NOTE**** Always refer to your owners manual when choosing a bullet weight to be fired from a light weight gun.
Some newer light weight snubs can only fire heavier than 120gr bullets and function properly. Function of the gun is the most important factor in any gun for a defensive purpose**********
Heavier bullet weights 158gr and heavier, dont always provide more percieved recoil than those of lighter weights. Different powders and burn ratios make bullets recoil differently.
Speer/CCI Blazer 158gr JHP's recoil substantially less than the Speer Gold Dot 158gr JHP's.....my recommendation is to try a certain load in your gun and evaluate its recoil on a personal basis.
Accuracy of different bullets and weights.
In my experience most makers of snubs "sight in" their guns for 125gr bullets. This can be confusing to the beginner. (Remeber Muzzle rise?) While all bullets weights will shoot in a straight line from the barrel, meaning they shouldnt deviate from there intended path of travel in a left or right direction. Most lighter bullets tend to "shoot low" from a snubby. The opposite also holds true for heavier bullets.
A quick explanation of how this happens and why its important in choosing ammo for your snub.
A basic rule of physics is "with every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". When gun makers design a gun they must design the sights to match where the bullets hits, right?
Most makers of snubs use the physical action or force transferred from a 125gr bullet when determing the POI/POA relation into the guns design. Point of impact (POI) is where the bullet hits and Point of aim (POA) is where the sights of the gun were aiming. Of course, we want these two to be the same point when shooting a gun!
When lighter bullets are fired from a gun, less of the opposite force is sent back to the gun...IE the gun will experience less muzzle rise. The 110gr will have less physical effect than the maker has factored into the guns design with the 125gr.
With less muzzle rise at the point the bullet leaves the barrel, you have a "bullet that shoots lower than where you had the sights on the target". The opposite holds true for most heavier bullets. The heavier weight transfers more force...thus more muzzle rise and a bullet that can "shoot high".
This is an important factor when choosing a round for your snubby for the simplest reasons. You must know where your bullets are going to hit in relation to where your sights are aimed.
Thats it. My suggestions for choosing a round for your snub. Listen to the advice of shooters who you trust and to things that make sense to you! Try as many different loads as you can and make your own conclusions that are the BEST FOR YOUR SITUATION! Everyone is different and will have different perceptions regarding guns, ammo and your given choices.
Thanks for your time and Shoot well.......................Eric
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