The .38-40 and .44-40

[BlueTrain]

This question concerns these two calibers as used in either rifles or revolvers. How many people here regularly shoot either of those calibers. If you handload, how does reloading them compare with reloading the .45 Colt (or any other handgun cartridge)? In other words, do their cases present any particular problems because of the bottleneck or supposedly thinner brass?

I would be especially interesting hearing from anyone that uses either one in both rifle and revolver.

Also, how do they compare with one another and how do they compare with the .45 Colt? I know that is asking for a subject answer but they are generally comparable, at least these days.

Don't have either one and I don't think I seen much mention of them here but they sound interesting and worth learning more about.

 

[Jim Watson]

I load .44-40 for Winchester and Colt.
The bottleneck means you have to use steel dies, no carbide available. Brass must be clean so as to not scratch the sizing die and very lightly lubed. You must be careful that the brass enters the die straight, it is thin and will crumple if it hits the edge of the opening. You need a roll crimp which is helped by brass trimmed to the same length; or use the Lee Factory Crimp which crimps by closing a collet on the mouth of the brass. It will not buckle the brass by setting too deep like a roll crimp.
It is a little more work but not difficult.
Consider that with black powder, the .38-40, .44-40, and .45 Colt all use about the same amount of powder but bullets are 180, 200, and 250 grains, respectively. BP shooters like the .44 because its thin brass expands and seals the chamber better than .45 and keeps fouling out of the action.

 

[Old Time Hunter]

Pretty much what Mr. Watson said! I generally load a minumum of a hundred at a crack (.44-40) and due to my general carelessness I usually crumple a couple of shells. If they are new brass, I never, ever crumple 'em. Got a .45 also, carbide dies make loading a bit easier, but as Mr. Watson said, the time saved loading is wasted cleaning.

 

[BlueTrain]

Thanks for the comment. My thinking was entirely traditional, same cartridge for rifle and handgun. I know the .45 Colt was not chambered in rifles until recently, so strictly speaking, that is not traditional. I even owned an End of the Trail version Winchester, which was a particularly nice rifle with just about zero recoil. It gave no trouble at all. I also know the .357 (and .32-20) are also available, though I sometimes hear negative comments about the .357 rifles.

For some curious reason, I have seen several .32-20 revolvers lately , all old. I know it has a similiar design to the other two and I probably should have listed it as well but I didn't think of it at the time. I know Marlin makes rifles in that caliber now and then.

In theory, the .45 Colt would make a better choice, given what I already have in the way of reloading supplies and the apparent simplicity of reloading it compared with the others. But I'm always interesting in new things, which is an ironic statement when we are talking about the .44-40 and the like.

I also know there used to be "Hi-speed" loads for at least the .44-40 and probably the .38-40 as well but I try to resist hot rodding my own ammuntion. I don't think Hi-speed loads have been offered for ages.

 

[bobn]

cowboy action shooting has been my fav lately. i shoot a 44 spec (in a 44mag) win, a 45 colt in a marlin, a 44 40 in a cimmaron short rifle. the 44 40 feeds smoother and faster than the other two....bobn

 

[Charshooter]

Back when we were kids, we used to hand load cast bullets for my grandfathers old rickety 44-40 model 1873. I remember it being fun and it was nice grand paw let use play around with one powerful center fire rifle, the new 1894 30-30s were hands off expensive rifles. I wish I had that old gun today.

 

[Molasses]

The Mrs. ("Sweet Tooth") has been using a pair of .38-40 Cimarrons for pistol and a Winchester 92 SRC for years in CAS. I was pretty heavy into a pair of .44-40 Vaqueros and first a repro 73 SRC, laterly switching to a 73 rifle or use a repro Henry for the BP classes. Last few years it's been .357 for me (feeds better than .38s through my rifles), although a lot of that's just laziness in the reloading process and cheapness (I can get once fired .357 brass from work for the asking). No matter which caliber, the convenience of just dipping into one ammo supply for both rifle and pistols is priceless. I've tried mixed chamberings at a match before and I used to keep a few .44-40 cases that had been fired out of .45 LC guns as an object lesson in why that doesn't work so well for the likes of me. Can you say "reverse bottleneck"?

.38-40 and .44-40 are both nice calibers. They used to be very popular (although it's my opinion that at least half of that was due to the nifty rifles and carbines chambered for them) and still wouldn't be bad choices for deer or other stuff of similar size at shortish range. I've got one friend that swears I was faster with the .44-40 pistols than the .38 Special-equivalent loads in the .357s. Whatever. Admittedly, I've actually squished the mouth flat on tired old cracked cases with my fingers alone and it's remarkably easy to mess up brass reloading 'em. Like was mentioned earlier, I've found that uniform length is necessary for good roll crimping. I've also found that it's really easiest for me (YMMV-Your Mileage May Vary ) to bulk lube brass by about the half-full gallon ice cream bucket with one of the spray/pump lubes, size 'em using the old Bonanza Co-Ax press (it's got features I won't go into here that make sizing large quantities of bottleneck cases go quickly), run 'em through the tumbler again to get the lube off and then through the progressive with a universal decapping die in the first station. My ruined brass rate went down a LOT when I began starting the case into the sizing die by hand as that system allows.

 

[BlueTrain]

Thank you for the excellent reply.

As far as reloading goes, I've learned not to have different calibers around that are too similiar in appearance, like .44 magnum and .45 Colt. Sooner or later one or the other winds up in the wrong place.

Curiously enough, I had the highest case failure rate with .38 special, though I'm sure my reloads were nowhere near as powerful as factory loads. It must be nothing more than the fact that I reloaded them more than anything else. By case failure, I mean nothing more than the case beginning to split.