Disclaimer: The following opinions are mine - not necessarily those of the
owner, Staff, or any member of The Firing Line.
---------------------
“TFL is not a pro-gun forum.”
That statement is inadequate and therefore controversial.
To advance responsible firearms ownership, we must secure our Right to
Keep and Bear Arms (RKBA). We must grow in numbers, unite, and
organize/increase our efforts.
-----
On TFL we tolerate some limited level of off-topic threads if they increase the
cohesiveness of the members in the RKBA effort. Because of TFL, friendships
have been formed, the feeling of being “the last American gun owner” has
been dispelled, group “Meets” have been organized, etc. All of this promotes
unity and has a place in the struggle to advance “responsible firearms
ownership”.
There seems to be little disagreement on the need for unity. We agree, for
example, that we must teach youngsters about our RKBA - these kids are our
future. But what of our other efforts?
-----
What are the membership requirements of TFL? The Forum Policies say:
- “You are welcome to come in and visit”
- “(Y)ou need only provide a name and email address.”
- You must abide by the four rules listed.
Nowhere does it say a member must be a gun owner, a fighter for our RKBA,
or hold beliefs “exactly like mine”!
Are such people welcome here? Of course, but also welcome are:
- Those who know nothing about guns or our RKBA,
- Those who like only one aspect of firearms and not others, and
- Even anti-gunners.
Anti-gunners can come here for information and debate so long as they stay
within the forum policies. They should be treated with the same respect as
any gun owner or “pro-gunner”.
But the concept that you should not waste time with an anti-gunner is facile
defeatism. How is the RKBA effort going to grow if we only work with those
who agree with us?
Some time ago, we found: www.jaspar.net
On their home page, in BIG letters is,
“Sometimes the rule is that there are no rules”
Just below that: “THE HANDBOOK RULES!”
There’s good reading on Jon Haupt’s site but, unfortunately, Jon apparently
only wants us to be mirror images of himself and each other! For example:
“DON'T MESS WITH TRUE BELIEVERS. In the time you spend trying to
convert one hard core antigun person to our side, you could have gone out
and motivated and organized 20 people who already think like you do. Go
with the flow. It's easier on your nerves, and much more effective.
Personally, I have converted several anti-rights true believers, but never
again! Lots of NRA members are not registered voters. A lot of gun owners
aren't NRA members. Even more folks have no idea of their elected officials'
positions on gun issues. Where is your time most effectively spent? Think
about this before you spend an hour writing a clever response to a silly
message you found somewhere on the internet.”
If Jon is more effective at organizing pro-gunners, let him choose to work
where he is interested and effective. Let’s get organized - no argument. If
HE doesn’t want to bother with antigunners, that his choice - bless him. I
respect him. I like his site and his writings, but:
- Jon should realize that there are many fronts and many battles to be won
in the war for our RKBA.
- Jon should realize some people have interests and talents involving
civilized confrontation with anti-gunners. Jon even admits he’s converted
some anti-gunners! How can that be a waste of time? If you convert two
anti-gunners, you just might have converted two families! Not only that, but
if just ONE of those two converts can sway two people, one of whom converts
two more, etc. etc. I would not call that a waste of time! Jon might not even
know if somewhere along the line, through his efforts, a potential Sarah
Brady will become one of the Second Amendment Sisters.
We must educate those folks who have NO interest and/or information in the
RKBA struggle. If HCI gets to them first, we may gain an enemy instead of a
friend.
We must educate the fence sitters. They have part of the story - we must
give them “The Rest of the Story” - the True Story! But many fence sitters
have little or no interest in the subject of RKBA or the debate process may
unpleasant for them. They don’t participate - they are on the sidelines and
only watch from time to time.
If all they see is the anti-freedom side of the story, they will vote against our
RKBA! Therefore, some of us enter the field of battle. Is it a waste of time?
Should I instead “organize” 20 fellow RKBA believers who Jon thinks are
UNorganized?
If I discuss RKBA with a fellow believer, how many votes have I won for our
efforts? Zero! He already was a believer! He already knows he should vote
and there are many “leaders” out there to “organize” him.
If I discuss RKBA with an anti, how many votes can I win? There is NO
LIMIT!
I may win zero votes for RKBA - God knows most anti-gunners aren’t
going to change. But what about the observers?
- If I fight with the anti-gunner and call him a bed-wetting, communist,
fascist, Nazi, socialist, thumb-sucking, twit - he wins! RKBA loses! The
bystanders figure I’m a complete whacko and our RKBA effort is diminished
because I was stroking my ego or playing to my friendly audience rather than
truly trying to win votes.
- If I debate the anti-gunner in a calm manner, stating verifiable facts, citing
referenced rebuttals to his arguments, then maybe I can make an impression
on the bystanders - the lurkers. If the anti-gunner harangues in the face of
quiet logic and facts, then the anti-gunner becomes the whacko and I have
the chance to bring even more voters into the RKBA fold.
To avoid the debate because you don’t like it, or you are no good at it, or
your talents lay elsewhere is fine. It’s your choice.
But degrading a pro-gunner in public degrades and belittles our RKBA effort.
Support or avoid the struggle for our RKBA but
don’t EVER degrade a pro-gunner’s efforts
- especially during his debate with an anti-gunner.
Doing so:
- helps the anti-gunner,
- hurts the RKBA advocate, and
- may well take your comrade out of the struggle permanently.
On TFL we have members who are living proof that a rational, calm,
courteous manner can bring an anti-gunner to “our side”. Unfortunately,
we also have proof that screaming insults at our opponents is self-defeating
and degrades our RKBA efforts.
-----
Some time ago, another TFLer and I sat in on a meeting of the Million Mom
Marchers. We sat there with clenched teeth listening to the lie that they only
wanted gun safety. We spoke for gun safety. I volunteered to put on a free
demonstration of how to secure firearms in the home. Any place, any time, I
was willing to give my little demonstration. ... No go.
Did we convert a single MMMer? Nope. Not one. Was I therefore a failure?
Did I waste my time?
Representatives from two other organizations against “gun violence” got to
see two gun owners in hostile territory. Suddenly gun owners were “real
people”! We conducted ourselves as gentlemen and convinced at least two
ladies that we are neither violent nor crazy. They went back to their
organizations and told their people how two gun owners came to help but
were tricked, lied to, and insulted so badly they had to leave. How many
people may now have heard from their own leaders that “gun violence” is an
abuse of our RKBA not a result of our RKBA? Several hundred
people may be less sure of the anti-gun lies. Two gun owners decreased
support for our local MMM and the anti-freedom tyrants.
A minor victory you might say. Really? How many people will those several
hundred people talk with? How much will they reduce their efforts against
us? How far will the effect of two gun owners spending a morning in the
enemy camp go?
That is why we should remember our mission - the discussion and
advancement of responsible firearms ownership.”
We do not require a member to own a gun or even to like guns. We do want
people to understand that the anti-gun message is false. The entire
anti-freedom movement is based upon a lie. It is the path of weakness,
subservience, and victimization. We must convert the anti-gunners when
possible but we must stick to the famous “high road” so we can properly
influence the bystanders, the lurkers, and those with whom our message has
a chance.
Therefore, in my personal opinion, TFL is not a pro-gun board. Are TFLers
“pro-gun”? Of course. But TFL is more than a mere pro-gun board.
We are a political movement! The world is watching - quite literally - what
we say here. Therefore we must support each other as we must pick the
tactics and battles where we can be most effective in the struggle to advance
“responsible gun ownership”.
And that, contrary to Mr. Haupt’s opinion, is a very personal decision.
------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited July 31, 2000).]
owner, Staff, or any member of The Firing Line.
---------------------
“TFL is not a pro-gun forum.”
That statement is inadequate and therefore controversial.
To advance responsible firearms ownership, we must secure our Right to
Keep and Bear Arms (RKBA). We must grow in numbers, unite, and
organize/increase our efforts.
-----
On TFL we tolerate some limited level of off-topic threads if they increase the
cohesiveness of the members in the RKBA effort. Because of TFL, friendships
have been formed, the feeling of being “the last American gun owner” has
been dispelled, group “Meets” have been organized, etc. All of this promotes
unity and has a place in the struggle to advance “responsible firearms
ownership”.
There seems to be little disagreement on the need for unity. We agree, for
example, that we must teach youngsters about our RKBA - these kids are our
future. But what of our other efforts?
-----
What are the membership requirements of TFL? The Forum Policies say:
- “You are welcome to come in and visit”
- “(Y)ou need only provide a name and email address.”
- You must abide by the four rules listed.
Nowhere does it say a member must be a gun owner, a fighter for our RKBA,
or hold beliefs “exactly like mine”!
Are such people welcome here? Of course, but also welcome are:
- Those who know nothing about guns or our RKBA,
- Those who like only one aspect of firearms and not others, and
- Even anti-gunners.
Anti-gunners can come here for information and debate so long as they stay
within the forum policies. They should be treated with the same respect as
any gun owner or “pro-gunner”.
But the concept that you should not waste time with an anti-gunner is facile
defeatism. How is the RKBA effort going to grow if we only work with those
who agree with us?
Some time ago, we found: www.jaspar.net
On their home page, in BIG letters is,
“Sometimes the rule is that there are no rules”
Just below that: “THE HANDBOOK RULES!”
There’s good reading on Jon Haupt’s site but, unfortunately, Jon apparently
only wants us to be mirror images of himself and each other! For example:
“DON'T MESS WITH TRUE BELIEVERS. In the time you spend trying to
convert one hard core antigun person to our side, you could have gone out
and motivated and organized 20 people who already think like you do. Go
with the flow. It's easier on your nerves, and much more effective.
Personally, I have converted several anti-rights true believers, but never
again! Lots of NRA members are not registered voters. A lot of gun owners
aren't NRA members. Even more folks have no idea of their elected officials'
positions on gun issues. Where is your time most effectively spent? Think
about this before you spend an hour writing a clever response to a silly
message you found somewhere on the internet.”
If Jon is more effective at organizing pro-gunners, let him choose to work
where he is interested and effective. Let’s get organized - no argument. If
HE doesn’t want to bother with antigunners, that his choice - bless him. I
respect him. I like his site and his writings, but:
- Jon should realize that there are many fronts and many battles to be won
in the war for our RKBA.
- Jon should realize some people have interests and talents involving
civilized confrontation with anti-gunners. Jon even admits he’s converted
some anti-gunners! How can that be a waste of time? If you convert two
anti-gunners, you just might have converted two families! Not only that, but
if just ONE of those two converts can sway two people, one of whom converts
two more, etc. etc. I would not call that a waste of time! Jon might not even
know if somewhere along the line, through his efforts, a potential Sarah
Brady will become one of the Second Amendment Sisters.
We must educate those folks who have NO interest and/or information in the
RKBA struggle. If HCI gets to them first, we may gain an enemy instead of a
friend.
We must educate the fence sitters. They have part of the story - we must
give them “The Rest of the Story” - the True Story! But many fence sitters
have little or no interest in the subject of RKBA or the debate process may
unpleasant for them. They don’t participate - they are on the sidelines and
only watch from time to time.
If all they see is the anti-freedom side of the story, they will vote against our
RKBA! Therefore, some of us enter the field of battle. Is it a waste of time?
Should I instead “organize” 20 fellow RKBA believers who Jon thinks are
UNorganized?
If I discuss RKBA with a fellow believer, how many votes have I won for our
efforts? Zero! He already was a believer! He already knows he should vote
and there are many “leaders” out there to “organize” him.
If I discuss RKBA with an anti, how many votes can I win? There is NO
LIMIT!
I may win zero votes for RKBA - God knows most anti-gunners aren’t
going to change. But what about the observers?
- If I fight with the anti-gunner and call him a bed-wetting, communist,
fascist, Nazi, socialist, thumb-sucking, twit - he wins! RKBA loses! The
bystanders figure I’m a complete whacko and our RKBA effort is diminished
because I was stroking my ego or playing to my friendly audience rather than
truly trying to win votes.
- If I debate the anti-gunner in a calm manner, stating verifiable facts, citing
referenced rebuttals to his arguments, then maybe I can make an impression
on the bystanders - the lurkers. If the anti-gunner harangues in the face of
quiet logic and facts, then the anti-gunner becomes the whacko and I have
the chance to bring even more voters into the RKBA fold.
To avoid the debate because you don’t like it, or you are no good at it, or
your talents lay elsewhere is fine. It’s your choice.
But degrading a pro-gunner in public degrades and belittles our RKBA effort.
Support or avoid the struggle for our RKBA but
don’t EVER degrade a pro-gunner’s efforts
- especially during his debate with an anti-gunner.
Doing so:
- helps the anti-gunner,
- hurts the RKBA advocate, and
- may well take your comrade out of the struggle permanently.
On TFL we have members who are living proof that a rational, calm,
courteous manner can bring an anti-gunner to “our side”. Unfortunately,
we also have proof that screaming insults at our opponents is self-defeating
and degrades our RKBA efforts.
-----
Some time ago, another TFLer and I sat in on a meeting of the Million Mom
Marchers. We sat there with clenched teeth listening to the lie that they only
wanted gun safety. We spoke for gun safety. I volunteered to put on a free
demonstration of how to secure firearms in the home. Any place, any time, I
was willing to give my little demonstration. ... No go.
Did we convert a single MMMer? Nope. Not one. Was I therefore a failure?
Did I waste my time?
Representatives from two other organizations against “gun violence” got to
see two gun owners in hostile territory. Suddenly gun owners were “real
people”! We conducted ourselves as gentlemen and convinced at least two
ladies that we are neither violent nor crazy. They went back to their
organizations and told their people how two gun owners came to help but
were tricked, lied to, and insulted so badly they had to leave. How many
people may now have heard from their own leaders that “gun violence” is an
abuse of our RKBA not a result of our RKBA? Several hundred
people may be less sure of the anti-gun lies. Two gun owners decreased
support for our local MMM and the anti-freedom tyrants.
A minor victory you might say. Really? How many people will those several
hundred people talk with? How much will they reduce their efforts against
us? How far will the effect of two gun owners spending a morning in the
enemy camp go?
That is why we should remember our mission - the discussion and
advancement of responsible firearms ownership.”
We do not require a member to own a gun or even to like guns. We do want
people to understand that the anti-gun message is false. The entire
anti-freedom movement is based upon a lie. It is the path of weakness,
subservience, and victimization. We must convert the anti-gunners when
possible but we must stick to the famous “high road” so we can properly
influence the bystanders, the lurkers, and those with whom our message has
a chance.
Therefore, in my personal opinion, TFL is not a pro-gun board. Are TFLers
“pro-gun”? Of course. But TFL is more than a mere pro-gun board.
We are a political movement! The world is watching - quite literally - what
we say here. Therefore we must support each other as we must pick the
tactics and battles where we can be most effective in the struggle to advance
“responsible gun ownership”.
And that, contrary to Mr. Haupt’s opinion, is a very personal decision.
------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited July 31, 2000).]
(OMG...I'm starting to think like 'Slinger...Yikes!!!)