Taylor & Co Schofields

Anyone have any experience with them? Good? Bad? Indifferent?

For years I've been considering getting a Schofield, and the urge is growing once again...
 

Bowdog

New member
I have been dealing with Taylor and Co for about10 years and like them very much. They offer a good product and stand behind it. I do not own a Schofield but do own two open tops and two SAA style all in .45 colt. They do go over every gun and fix and tune as needed if needed. I would not hesitate to buy any gun from them. I never had a problem.
 

KEYBEAR

New member
I have been looking at the 1875 in 45 Colt and the prices keep going up .
I guess i can hold out maybe next summer .
 
Cool. That's what I was hoping to hear. I was looking at Scofields and No 3s again on a couple of sites and came across the Taylors. None available.

I've heard spotty things about the Cimmarons over the years.

Of course, in working my way through the list of single actions that are available, I see that there are .32-20s being made again... That has a charm all of its own...
 

Dave T

New member
The reproduction Schofields are all made by Uberti. Both Cimarron and Taylor's are importers of those Uberti made Schofields.

I have heard the Uberti versions (chambered in 45 Colt) are not compatible with black powder so I looked for one of the S&W 2000 Schofields (chambered in 45 S&W) put out by their Performance Center. They were touted to be exact reproductions of the original. The one I have doesn't like black powder any more than the Italian versions, which is a great disappointment as I am primarily a black powder cartridge shooter.

You pay your money and take your chances. In my case I lost on this deal. If you get one from Taylor's I hope it works out better for you. Just be warned if you were thinking of shooting black powder in a Schofield of any make, other than an original.

Dave
 

T. O'Heir

New member
Dixie lists assorted barrel length Uberti Schofields at $1150.
Taylor's Firearms says they have 5". 45 Colt, models at $1169.
 

JayCee

New member
I have a five inch Uberti Schofield in 45 Colt imported by Taylors that I bought used a few years ago. It’s a fun gun to shoot, but there are a couple of caveats that go along with that. First, if you’re used to shooting a Single Action Army, you’ll find the Schofield significantly more muzzle heavy. Second, on my gun at least, if you don’t keep it squeaky clean, the ejector sometimes sticks in the open position after you eject the empty cases. It seems to start sticking after shooting maybe 50 rounds. A thorough cleaning and lube takes care of the problem, but it is somewhat annoying. I shoot standard 45 Colt loads using Unique; a cleaner burning powder might alleviate the issue. The Schofield isn’t a target pistol, but I have no problem consistently thumping 8 inch steel plates at 25 yards. I’ve experienced no loosening of the latch or any other potential issues with the frame, but the round count since I’ve owned the gun is probably less than a thousand, so it’s unlikely there would be any significant issues at that point. All in all, it’s a fun gun to plink with, and a pleasant alternative to shooting a Single Action Army…
 
Howdy

The early Schofields imported by Cimarron that had problems were made by ASM. They had problems. They are not being made any more. Yes, all the current replicas of the Schofield are made in Italy by Uberti, no matter who the importer is.

The reason the replica Schofields have problems with Black Powder is because they reduced the length of the cylinder bushing on the front of the cylinder.

When S&W talked to the Army about supplying a Top Break revolver, the Army wanted it to be a 45 caliber revolver. At the time S&W was busy building what turned out to be about 150,000 Top Break revolvers for the Russian, Japanese, and Turkish governments. S&W Top Break cylinders had always been 1 7/16" long, which was a perfect length for the 44 S&W American cartridge and the later 44 Russian cartridge. S&W had no problem opening up the chambers and bore slightly from 44 to 45, but the 1 7/16" long cylinder was not long enough for the 45 Colt cartridge, which the Colt Single Action Army was chambered for. S&W was not about to change their tooling for a longer frame and cylinder to accommodate the longer cartridge while they were busy making so many revolvers for foreign orders. So a compromise was reached with a new 45 caliber cartridge that would fit into the 1 7/16" long cylinders. Eventually this cartridge became known as the 45 Schofield cartridge, and it worked very well in the original Schofield revolvers. This is an original 1875 Schofield cylinder. Notice the prominent bushing pressed into the front of the cylinder.

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The extractor rod slips inside the hollow cylinder arbor of the revolver.

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The cylinder bushing rides on the outside of the arbor.

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When everything is snugged up, the front of the bushing sits some distance horizontally in front of the barrel/cylinder gap. When the revolver is fired, fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap blasts out pretty much in a plane. The horizontal separation beween the front of the bushing and the barrel/cylinder gap means the bushing does an excellent job of shielding the arbor from fouling being blasted onto it.

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Fouling building up on the cylinder arbor, or cylinder pin in a Colt, is the chief reason a revolver tends to bind up when fired with Black Powder.

What ASM and Uberti did was lengthen the cylinder to accommodate longer cartridges such as 45 Colt and 44-40. But they kept the frame pretty much the same length as the originals. That meant there was less space in the frame window for the longer cylinder. Something had to give, and it was the bushing on the front of the cylinder. Although not eliminated, the bushing had to be made much shorter and did not do as good a job of shielding the arbor from fouling blasted out of the b/c gap as the original design did.

That is why the modern replicas tend to bind up pretty quickly when fired with Black Powder, but they work fine with Smokeless.

When S&W built the Schofield Model of 2000 they changed a few things from the original design. One change was a frame mounted firing pin instead of the original hammer mounted firing pin. The other thing was, although this revolver was chambered for the original 45 Schofield cartridge, and not 45 Colt, for some reason they chose to shorten the bushing on the front of the cylinder. So the S&W Schofield Model of 2000 suffers from the same problem when shooting Black Powder as the Italian replicas do. To be fair, S&W probably did not think anyone would be shooting Black Powder through the Model of 2000. But surprise, a few folks tried.
 

hammie

New member
@Mike Irwin: It looks like the taylor schofields are availabile in .38 special, .44 russian, .44 special, .44-40, and .45 colt. I'm curious about what barrel length, and what chambering you would choose and why.

I've always sort of yearned for a #3 schofield chambered for .44 russian. The "cool factor" is way up there, but I don't really need another single action revolver or a revolver chambered for a hard to find cartridge. If I ever find one, maybe I will change my mind. At 74, I don't have an abundance of time, and it's only money. Equally intriguing would be a schofield chambered for .45 schofield.
 

Jim Watson

New member
The early Schofields imported by Cimarron that had problems were made by ASM. They had problems. They are not being made any more.

And a good thing. A friend and I bought ASMs based on the recommendation of an Australian shooter. A litany of disasters, we eventually got a partial refund. I understand it nearly put the importer out of business.

None of the calibers listed are authentic to the Schofield, get what you want to shoot. If you handload, get a .44 or .45, a .38 on that frame is a heavy gun.
I had a .38-44 Target and it did not handle as nicely as a .44 Russian.
But if you are buying ammo, get a caliber you can find.
 

hammie

New member
@JimWatson: I'm confused. I thought the .44 russian is authentic to the schofield? Last time I checked the .44 russian chambering is offered by both uberti and taylor & co.
 
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hammie said:
@JimWatson: I'm confused. I thought the .44 russian is authentic to the schofield? Last time I checked the .44 russian chambering is offered by both uberti and taylor & co.
The S&W .44 Russian was a real firearm, but it wasn't a Schofield. The Schofield was intended as an alternate to the Colt Model of 1873, which was chambered in :)duh:) .45 Colt. The action on the S&W top breaks wasn't long enough to accommodate the .45 Colt round, so S&W came out with a shorter round. The 1873s could shoot the shorter S&W round, but the Schofields couldn't take .45 Colt, so eventually the Army standardized on the shorter round for everything.

.44 Russian was a round that was developed to satisfy the Tsar's requirements for a large order that went to the Russian army.
 

hammie

New member
@AguilaBlanca: I think I get it now. The .44 russian is authentic to the russian model of the S&W top break but the .45 schofield or the different .45 US govt is authentic to the schofield model of the S&W top break. Is that right?

Still would like to know mike's choice of cartridge.
 
Howdy Again

A brief primer on the five separate large Smith and Wesson Top Break revolvers built on the #3 sized frame. They were all built on the large #3 sized frame, but they were all different in shape.

First came the American Model. This was the first Top Break revolver Smith and Wesson made, once the Rollin White patent for revolvers with chambers bored through for cartridges expired in 1869. The design was revolutionary, when the revolver was broken open and the barrel rotated down to load, the extractor automatically rose and lifted the fired cartridges up. As the barrel was rotated all the way the extractor snapped back down and the fired cartridges fell free, allowing the revolver to be reloaded quickly. Chambered for 44 Henry Rimfire and 44 S&W American, which used a heeled bullet. Made from 1870 until 1872. Identification features: The grip is almost straight up and down, and the American Model had the longest extractor housing under the barrel of all the #3 Top Breaks.

Note: This is not actually an American Model, it is a First Model Russian, which looked exactly like the American Model, the only difference being the American Model was chambered for the 44 S&W American cartridge with its heeled bullet, the 1st Model Russian was chambered for the 44 Russian cartridge. This one left the factory in 1873. The barrel has been cut down and a coin has been substituted for the front sight.

A replica of the American Model is currently being manufactured by Uberti and sold by Cimarron.

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Next came the Russian Model. Built for export to Russia as well as Turkey and Japan. This is the model the 44 Russian cartridge was created for. Unlike the earlier S&W 44 American cartridge, which used a heeled bullet the same outside diameter as the cartridge case, the 44 Russian cartridge used a bullet the same diameter as the inside of the cartridge case. This meant the bullet could have its grease grooves completely encased inside the brass, unlike heeled bullets which carried their bullet lube on the outside, just like modern 22 Rimfire ammunition. The 44 Russian cartridge was the first 'modern' cartridge to have a bullet the same diameter as the inside of the case. Which also created the precedent of a '44' caliber revolver having a groove diameter or .429, just like the later 44 Special and 44 Magnum cartridges. This is a Second Model Russian. Identification features are the large hump, or 'knuckle' on the grip, and the spur on the trigger guard. The Third Model Russian had the addition of a knurled wheel on the top strap to help make removing the cylinder easier. The modern replicas of the Russian revolver are 3rd Models. All told, over 150,000 Russian models were made in the three versions, between 1871 and 1878.

This one left the factory in 1875.

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The Schofield Model had a redesigned latch for the barrel. The previous models had the latch mounted on the top strap. Colonel George Schofield modified the latch on an American Model to make it easier for a mounted trooper to open the revolver and reload with one hand. His latch was mounted to the frame, rather than the top strap. Schofield patented his latch design. As mentioned earlier, the shorter 45 Schofield cartridge was approved by the Army for this revolver. Smith and Wesson had to pay Schofield a royalty for every revolver they produced with his latch. Daniel Wesson directed his engineers to come up with a new barrel latch that could get around Schofield's patent, but the Schofield Model was only produced from 1875 until 1878 in two different models with a total of just under 9,000 made in both models. The model was not in production long enough for the S&W engineers to come up with a work around for Schofield's latch. Identification features are the serpentine shaped barrel latch mounted to the frame, and the curved grip.

This 1st Model Schofield shipped in 1875.

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The best of all the S&W #3 Top Breaks was the New Model Number Three. Chambered for a total of 17 different cartridges, but the most popular chambering was the 44 Russian. Cataloged from 1878 until 1908, but all frames were manufactured before 1899, so they all qualify as antiques. The barrel latch returned to the earlier style mounted to the top strap. The grip was reshaped with just a small 'knuckle' on it. This model had a rebounding hammer that automatically pulled the hammer and firing pin back slightly when the trigger was released. Several different models were made, including two models with longer cylinders to chamber the 44-40 and 38-40 cartridge, although there were only about 2,000 made chambered for 44-40 and only 74 made chambered for 38-40. A total of over 47,000 New Model Number Threes were made. A spur on the trigger guard was an option with this model, which can make it easy to confuse with the Russian model, but the frames were shaped very differently.

This one is chambered for 44 Russian and left the factory in 1896.

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The 44 Double Action was the only double action revolver S&W built on the large #3 sized frame. Over 53,000 were made between 1881 and 1913, but again all frames were made prior to 1899, so they are all classified as antiques. Again, 44 Russian was the most common chambering, but 15,000 were chambered for 44-40 and 276 were chambered for 38-40. Identification features are the large double action trigger guard and the distinctive vertical grooves on the cylinder.

In this photo, the 44 Double Action at the top is a target model, with a drift adjustable rear sight and a target front sight with a bead on top of the blade, the one at the bottom is a standard model with an old coin substituted for the front sight. Both are chambered for 44 Russian, the target model shipped in 1895, the standard model shipped in 1881.

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Good information and discussion.

Ideally what I'd like is a 5" Schofield in .45 Colt. I believe 5" is what Hartley, Schuyler and Graham cut Army Schofields down to when they sold them to American Express Co.

Or, I'd like a .44 Special New Model No 3, also in 5 or 6"

Having a bit of trouble finding anything specific to those specifications.

But I will. Eventually.
 

44caliberkid

New member
Cowboy shooters I know using Uberti Schofields and shooting blackpowder, in 44-40, using the Big Lube Mav-Dutchman bullet, can shoot 7 - 10 stages, 35 - 50 rounds, without binding. The extra lube keeps the fouling soft and it just wipes off as the cylinder turns. I wipe the soot off between stages, but you can shoot all day without binding. Again, I'm specifying 44 WCF, I have no experience with this model in 45 Colt, but you can get Big Lubes in 45 too.
 

Jim Watson

New member
Ideally what I'd like is a 5" Schofield in .45 Colt. I believe 5" is what Hartley, Schuyler and Graham cut Army Schofields down to when they sold them to American Express Co.

Or, I'd like a .44 Special New Model No 3, also in 5 or 6"

Cimarron lists a 5" .45 Schofield pattern.
https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/model-no-3-schofield-45-lc-5-in.html

Taylors has a reasonable approximation of a NM No 3 in .44.
https://taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/cartridge-revolvers/schofield-revolvers/frontier-rev.html

Now whether they actually have any outside the catalog is another question I can't answer.
 

jdc606

New member
Very nice, Mr. Johnson. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and pictures. Are those Schofields part of your collection?
 
Very nice, Mr. Johnson. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and pictures. Are those Schofields part of your collection?

Yes, all of those antique S&W Top Breaks are part of my collection. But I feel duty bound to remind you there is only one Schofield revolver pictured. The others are the other 4 models that S&W built on the large #3 sized frame.

Regarding a replica of the New Model Number Three, Uberti made one a number or years ago that was marketed by their parent company, Beretta. It was called the Laramie. More recently, Taylors has reintroduced this model, they are calling it the Frontier. Taylor's website shows it is chambered for 45 Colt with a 6 1/2" barrel or 5" barrel, and 44 Special with a 6 1/2" barrel. The Laramie/Frontier uses the same barrel assembly as Uberti's 3rd Model Russian, which has a knurled thumb wheel on top of the top strap. The New Model Number Three was never made with that thumbwheel. Otherwise it is a reasonable replica of the New Model Number Three, but it comes with a drift adjustable rear sight, as you can see on one of my 44 Double Actions. The originals that had an adjustable rear sight also had a tall front sight blade with a bead on top as can be seen on that same 44 Double Action.

Unfortunately, the website shows all three versions are out of stock right now. My guess is because Italy was hit very hard by the Covid 19 Pandemic.

https://taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/cartridge-revolvers/schofield-revolvers/frontier-rev.html



The Schofields with the cut down 5" barrels were mostly sold to Wells Fargo.
 
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