Target Sights: Somewhere between Williams and Palma

[Leif]

This is probably a silly question, but are there any sort of currently manufactured 'target' sights for bolt action rifles that are somewhere in between the lower-end Williams FP sights and the higher-end Palma-style sights (Warner, etc.)?

I know about the older Redfields, but I'm wondering about new production. I cannot seem to locate anything. It seems that the aperture sight market is oriented almost entirely toward ghost ring apertures for lever action rifles and AR backup sights. Am I mistaken in this?

Dumb question ... or real absence?

 

[Bigfatts]

What kind of rifle? Williams makes what is called an Anschutz model that is pretty nice, it's made for a dovetailed rimfire receiver. I have one on a Remington 581 and can't complain. For that matter, Anschutz makes very fine peep sights, but they're more than the Palmas. The Lyman 90 MJT is also nice, similar price range to the Williams Anschutz. There are also the International Redfield models, they're usually a little less than the Palmas.

 

[Leif]

My apologies, I should have been more specific. The idea behind this is to set up a .223 caliber bolt action rifle with sights (no scope) for 100 to 300 yard shooting (no hunting, competitive, or defensive purposes in mind). Sort of a bolt action equivalent to an AR with irons. Are the sights intended for rimfire rifles unsuited to this purpose? I assumed (possibly incorrectly) that they were intended for rimfire only. The Palma match type sights seem to be 'too much' for this purpose as well, but maybe they're not.

 

[Jim Watson]

Get the best sights you can. You are not going to wear them out looking through them. I went cheap on a tang sight for my BPCR Winchester and eventually got to where it was a liability and I had to upgrade to a more precise (and expensive) Baldwin.

 

[Leif]

So, then, are the high-end sights like the Warners, PNWs, etc., suitable for 100 to 300 yard shooting? They seem to be used almost exclusively for much longer ranges, more on the order of 800 yards and greater.

What's a good sight for this purpose?

 

[Leif]

Actually, what would be a good sight and rifle combination for the above stated purpose?

 

[Slamfire]

Warner, PNW, RPA sights, as sold by someone like Otto Webber, http://www.okweber.com/index.asp or Homer at Champion Choice http://www.champchoice.com/, are competition sights. Folks who shoot match rifles use them from 200 yards, out to 1000 yards. These high grade target sights are characterized by high cost, and precision manufacture. They will repeatable move .002" per click up and down their full range of adjustment .

Now the problem you have, I expect, is that you don't want to pay $300-$600 for a rear sight. Well, the market for quality mid priced iron sights dried up in the early 60's. Cheap scopes killed the iron sight market. I still like the Lyman 48, have them on a couple of rifles. Can't afford to buy one as prices are close to $200 for them. So, on my Marlin M1894, screwed on a William foolproof and got a 100 yard zero.

I did find a SAKO rear sight, basically non adjustable after setting, and put that on my SAKO. It was a collectable too.

If you buy a used click adjustable iron sight, you need to buy a cheap Chinese magnetic dial base http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=5646, stick a cheap dial gauge on it, and measure the movement of the rear sight aperature as you click up/down, left and right. Worn out sights, or sights that have been beat up, will not move .002 in reverse direction. Might take several clicks in the reverse direction before you get any movement.

 

[Jim Watson]

Sorry, man, I don't even know of a factory rifle that comes drilled and tapped for receiver sights any more. Your best bet for iron sight shooting might well be an AR with free float front end and fine adjustment sights as used for Highpower shooting, 200 - 600 yards.

 

[Leif]

Well, the market for quality mid priced iron sights dried up in the early 60's.

Therein my problem lies. Guess I'm just retro.

Some thoughts:

- I don't mind so much paying $300.00 for decent quality sights (though I do have to sell some items first), but I want to make sure that what I use is appropriate to the task. Just as too high of a power scope can be overkill at certain ranges, I wonder (probably mistakenly) if the same is true of these sights. If they're used in competition for 200 yard shooting, then I suspect not, but I know so little about them I thought I'd ask around. Maybe I'm just worrying the issue too much (altogether likely).

- While I agree that most modern bolt action rifles are not set up for receiver sights, or at least those requiring the installation of a side rail, it appears that several of the sights will work with a Weaver base or rail. Has anybody tried this setup on something other than an AR? If not, I would imagine there is a good reason why, so what is it?

- I've considered the AR, which would be the easiest solution, but I'm not ready to give up on the bolt-action 'mid-Palma' just yet.

 

[Slopemeno]

I picked up a Palma rear/ Olympic front back in the day, when I had plans to do an ersatz "bull-gun" in '06. Let me know if youre interested in buying the sights when you get closer to your project. They've never even been mounted. And yes, youre right- they're heavy and solid. All you need a Merit disc to complete the look.

I'm with you, btw. I thing solid peep sights are an awesome setup. I've done quite a bit of small game hunting with a ghost-ring setup, and the sheer flexibilty is amazing.

 

[Leif]

Slopemeno, that's very kind of you - thanks. I'll definitely keep it in mind. If you don't mind my asking, what were your original plans for the rifle?

 

[Slopemeno]

I wanted to pick up a Model 70 in '06, rebarrel it with a heavy contour Shilen bbl, and put a clip guide on it, Palma rear, Olympic front, etc., but my shooting interests kept sliding more and more over to IPSC, and eventually I left the biz, so those sights have been rattling around in my box of half-completed project stuff for fifteen years.

I reloaded for '06 at the time, and had a Ruger 77, as well as a cherry 03-A3 (sigh, sold it for a song too), so it made sense at the time.

 

[Leif]

Slopemeno, that sound like it would have been a nice rifle.

Anybody set up a .22-caliber centerfire (.220 Swift, .222, .223, .22-250, etc.) bolt action (or single shot of any action type) rifle target rifle with precision iron sights? I'm casting the net wide for ideas ...