Talking to cops AFTER a shootout. (hypothetical)

[Lavan]

First, I ...was.. a victim of an armed robbery. Many decades ago.
Luckily there was no gunplay and they left with loot and I left with my life.

But.... last night...after all these years... I had a nightmare of an armed robbery. ..again.

There was shooting. I'd guess a "good shoot" as I fired ..after...they pulled a gun.

I did ...kill.... both robbers.

But when I woke up I started thinking.

IF there is a shootout, would you say ANYTHING to the cops?
Like." They came in, pulled a gun and I shot."

OR... would you tell the cops you will discuss the event AFTER you get your lawyer?

My inclination ...nowadays... would be to lawyer up before saying ANYTHING!


Right or wrong?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Masaad Ayoob, if I remember correctly, advises telling them "They pointed guns at me, I was afraid for my life, so I shot in self-defense. I'll be happy to answer any questions and provide a more detailed account when I am accompanied by my attorney."

 

[Lavan]

I like that.

 

[SHR970]

Said very loud: I'm sorry, my ears are still ringing. WHAT??? I can't hear you very well. While waiting to be checked out by the doctor get a lawyer. Depending on WHERE in Kali you are will help determine HOW anti gun, anti carry, hostile to gun owners your DA's office will be. I'm in LA County, my DA's office is extremely hostile. Even in my house where PC 198.5 gives me cover I can still expect for them to try and defeat my Presumption of Fear.

 

[Mike38]

The first phone call I would make is 911. "I was in fear for my life. I was forced to defend myself. I am at (location). My name is XXXX XXXX" I would then hang up and call CCW Safe, my self defense insurance company.

 

[TXAZ]

Don’t be there (Cali that is).
But the less you say the better other than the obvious.
Better is someone else calls 911.

 

[Sharkbite]

Better is someone else calls 911.

I disagree.
First, following a shooting, a bunch of people will be calling 911. In todays world, even 7 year olds have cell phones.

I think you need to get your call in ASAP (when safe). Stick to the basics.
Im at...
I was attacked and had to defend myself
Send an Ambulance my attacker has been shot.

 

[SHR970]

oh yah the call to 911 is a must. Call for medical for the "victim of his own stupidity" is a must. Call incluiding your audible injuries is just as important.

How you call it in will become evidence for or against you. Be careful of your 911 call and then lawer up.

 

[raimius]

Generally, it is advised to get the basics of your story out (eg. He attacked me), point out relevant evidence (I think his gun is over there), and witnesses (that guy saw the attack), then ask to talk to a lawyer and tell them you would like to file a criminal complaint.

 

[Tom Servo]

Ayoob's advice is solid and based on a ton of experience. I've heard it from plenty of lawyers, LEOs, and instructors over the years.

Do what you can to help them understand the scene, then say something along the lines of, "I want to cooperate, but I'm shaken up and I'd like legal counsel present before I make any statements."

 

[5whiskey]

Another vote for you need to briefly describe what happened so LEO can begin the investigation. I am an investigator if I’m called out and a guy literally won’t say anything at all after he just shot someone, that would make me wonder a lot. The same guy telling the basic story of “he tried to rob me, pulled a gun, so I shot him. Can I have some time to settle down and speak with my attorney before any further questioning?” would be much less odd, and understandable.

You don’t need to talk a lot or do a detailed interview in the few hours following a SD shooting. As said, you DO need to point out relevant evidence, witnesses, and other things to help an investigator discover the facts of what happened. Even officers involved in shootings are typically encouraged to get the basics out so the investigation can begin immediately after the incident, but to hold off on a detailed interview until after consulting an attorney and having some time to come down from the adrenaline dump. The following day or maybe day after is generally considered appropriate in my training, and in my area. Of course policing is done differently around the country so my experience may not apply to California.

 

[Lavan]

I don't worry about a "lot of wondering."

Wondering can't be used for or against me.

 

[Spats McGee]

I think it's Frank Ettin who has posted: "The best thing you can do is say the right thing. The second best thing is to say nothing. And the worst thing is to say the wrong thing. The trick is knowing which is which."

If I'm ever in an SD shooting: I will call 911 if I can safely do so. I will request medical aid. I know that the 911 tape will be reviewed and may be admitted at a trial against me. If that tape is played at my trial, I want the jury to hear me asking for medical aid for the BG. Besides, if I am first to the phone, the dispatcher will list my name under "victim," rather than "assailant," and that's good for my defense.

Generally, I agree with the others who have said: Make enough of a statement to help officers understand the scene, then shut up. "There's a camera on the front of that store." "That guy [gestures down the block] was checking out right in front of me at the store. Maybe he saw something." "There was a pink Cadillac SUV that rolled by right as I was mugged. They were going that way." "I need to sit down. I'm pretty shaken up and don't think I should say anything else until I've talked to my lawyer.

 

[Brit]

Speak to Paramedics, I have a heart condition, take me to a cardiac facility, please. That is after 911 Call. "I used my pistol in self-defence, I don't think I am injured, the other person is shot. We need Police and ambulance."

 

[5whiskey]

Wondering can't be used for or against me.

You are correct that “wondering” can’t be used against you. But bear in mind, if you own up to shooting someone (yes, even though it’s self defense) you are admitting to committing an illegal act. So if there’s proof you committed this act, at that point self defense would be a justification for what you’ve done. The state generally doesn’t have the burden to prove your justification for you. If there are such defenses and the state comes across them in the investigation, they do have the obligation to weigh and present in court any evidence for the justification. In short, self defense is a justification DEFENSE, and the state has no burden to prove your DEFENSE for you. But, the scene of a shooting at first is just that... the scene of a shooting. Be cavalier about not caring whether someone “wonders” or not, but at first for all anyone knows it’s a gang murder and not a mugging self defense. Staying completely silent from the start until you speak to your attorney may let a key witness walk away unidentified that could have exonerated you. Or left a piece of evidence laying on the ground that would be vital to your defense .

No one is advocating sitting down to hours of interviews immediately after. You absolutely shouldn’t as you won’t be thinking clearly, and adrenaline dump also affects short term memory recall. Be brief and careful at what you say initially, then let your attorney guide you later during formal interviews or steps of the investigation.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Generally, it is advised to get the basics of your story out (eg. He attacked me), point out relevant evidence (I think his gun is over there), and witnesses (that guy saw the attack), then ask to talk to a lawyer and tell them you would like to file a criminal complaint.

Thanks. That's a better summary of Ayoob's advice than what I provided above.

 

[dajowi]

At a self defense symposium it was pretty much established that there are a lot of people in prison who after a defensive shooting say anything. Best advice, tell the police that you don't wish to make a statement until you talk to an attorney. Blurting out something uncontrollably can send you to prison.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I think it's Frank Ettin who has posted: "The best thing you can do is say the right thing. The second best thing is to say nothing. And the worst thing is to say the wrong thing. The trick is knowing which is which."

While I agree, completely, the problem is that people tend to say too much once they get going. Sometimes, the 2nd best thing is the 1st best thing after all.

 

[Geezerbiker]

Masaad Ayoob, if I remember correctly, advises telling them "They pointed guns at me, I was afraid for my life, so I shot in self-defense. I'll be happy to answer any questions and provide a more detailed account when I am accompanied by my attorney."

I like this and it's likely what I'd say if that situation ever arose. Keep it simple, say the least and ask for an attorney.

Tony