Taking My Model 70 to a 800Meter and 1000yd Range?

[Jamie Young]

I'm going to two ranges in the next month and I want to get some suggestions on shooting this far out.

I've been shooting 150gr HPBT and FMJs out of My gun for the last 4 years. I'm not sure if I'll hit anything that far out, but, I assume I should move up to heavier bullets?

My 150's have made it out to 600yd but I haven't shot any further. Should I bounce all the way up to 170gr or 180gr? I've seen My 150gr bullets get blown 2ft at 500yds so I'm aware of the fact 30gr more might make the difference between a hit and a miss due to windage.

Do you think a 1 MOA gun is going to hit at 1000yds?

The reason I ask is, a guy I met at the range a few weeks ago (who seemed to know what he was talking about) start talking about certain bullets and the "Cone Affect" or is it "Effect"? He said due to barrel twist some bullets won't cut it out that far. I only have about 60rd to take with me so I don't want to waste My time trying to hit something that far out when its futile to begin with.

 

[stick]

What caliber is your rifle and what do you want to hit at that range? Also you stated "1MOA", is what range did you measure it at? I've found my 0.5 MOA groups at 100yds are bigger (MOA wise) at distance. That's from my reading of the conditions not any mystical nonlinear regression of the parabolic trajectory.... sorry I'm back.

Best thing to do is grab your ballistics charts and start figuring. Generally, you want the bullet to still be super-sonic at the given distance, remember to account for air density (mainly temperature and altitiude). Then to buck wind drift use a bullet with a high ballistic coefficient. I'd recommend doing some load development to get your rig to shoot <1MOA.

Sounds like you maybe shooting a 308 or '06. For the 308 try the 175gr Match Kings. In '06, look at 190gr (or heavier) Match Kings.

Sounds like some good range time heading your way.

 

[Jamie Young]

Well its an older Model 70 30/06 and I'm not sure If its goign to get much better than 1 MOA. I got the trigger pull knocked down from 7lbs to 3.5lbs and it gave me a bit of a confidence boost. The best I've done is put 4 shots in an inch at 100yds. I realize that I'm not going to shoot 10inch groups at 1000yds.

I got a 3hr drive to get to the 1000yd range so I have a lot of planning to do. I just don't want to get too frustrated. I all ready printed out some ballistic info for My 150's but they seemed to dissipate after 600yds. I might buy some Federal Match ammo and bring that to the range.



I just want to hit a few targets to say I did it and come home.

 

[six 4 sure]

I think how well you "hit" will depend more on how much practice you get, and how large the target is.

The range I shoot at has a steel sheep sitting out there at 1000 yards. It looks pretty small with my 12x scope, but I've still had to throw some lead at it anyway.

I havent gotten into long range shooting yet. Haven't even gotten around to sighting in my .300 Win Mag.

You might want to try look at some of the sniper web sites, they might have some useful info for you.

Good luck, and let us know how well you did.


Six

 

[hagar]

The best 1000 yard bullet for a 308 or 30/06 is the 155 gr Palma bullet at 2900 feet/sec. The Hornady A-Max is even better then the Sierra bullet. You have to push 168 grain bullets pretty fast to be supersonic at 1000 yards, almost impossible with a 308 with less than a 26 inch barrel.

 

[Bostonterrier97]

Try a Berger 185 grain VLD Moly loaded with 56.0 grains of V V N 160

 

[Jamie Young]

I think I'll make up an over sized board and put 4 full size targes together to increase My chances of figuring out where My bullets are flying. I'll work My way out from 600-800 but then 1000yds will be the real iffy thing with me.

 

[Jamie Young]

All right

I just printed out some ballistics data and then went downstairs to play with My scope. I just found out My scope (according to My calculations) doesn't have enough adjustment to get to 1000yds. I am about 6 MOA short with 200gr bullets.

I don't want to modify the gun to any quirky mounts since I use this gun for hunting. What exactly are My options if I stick with the Leupold variX II scope I have?

 

[Rob01]

The cheapest way to fix that is with some shims under the mount. You would put them under the rear mount to get more long range MOA. Check out Brownell's and call their tech line to find out exactly the thickness you'll need to get you about another 10-20MOA.

On bullets, You should go heavier than the 150's as I'm sure you know now. The Sierra 175 HPBT would be a good choice as they do well with a .308 at 1000 at about 2675 fps. With the 30-06 pushing them a little faster they will definately work. The Bergers would work but you might not be able to find them locally. I'd stay away from moly though if you don't use it already. Another bullet I would look at would be the Sierra 190 HPBT. I wouldn't go any heavier than that. You reach a point of deminishing returns. 175-190 will get you there ballisticly. Now it's up to you to hit the target.

On what the guy at the range said, the cone effect has to do with a kind of hypothetical that if it shoots 1 inch at 100 yards as it moves out it will be 10 inches at 1000 like a cone shape. Also if it's larger or you throw a shot it will go out wider. Some loads will be tight at 100 and open up at longer ranges and the reverse is also true. i've had loads that shot under 1/2 inch at 100 and opened up to over 3 inches at 300. I've also had 1" loads at 100 that stayed at 1 3/8 at 300. The major problem at longer ranges is wind. That's where the heavier bullets will help too. The only prohblem I could see with you using heavier bullets is if your barrel twist is too slow. If it's 1 in 12" then the 175s should work but the 190s might not. If it's 1 in 10" then everything will work uyp to 220s. Good luck.

 

[labgrade]

A cheap way to do the hold-over too, is to use the scopes subtension of the duplex (if you have that feature).

The distance between the heavy part of the duplex & the actual crossing of the "hairs" is the subtension & a defined measured/ing length.

Rather than using the actual crossing, elevate the scope's picture so you sight in using the bottom portion of the heavy duplex - elevates the bullet path.

Takes a bit of actual shooting to see where you hit, but works quite well & a "poor man's" ranger too boot (the distance between these features can do the ranging bit).

'Sides, if you shim, you may not be able to shoot at the closer distances ....

 

[Rob01]

"'Sides, if you shim, you may not be able to shoot at the closer distances ...."

This is not always true. Actually it's rarely true with a decent modern scope. All of my rifles have 20 MOA tapered bases and I have no problem zeroing any of them at 100 yards and still have more downward movemnet. With your Vari-X II you should have enough down to not bottom out with another 10-20 MOA on there. Even if you do you can zero at 200 and just hold a couple of inches low at 100. It's much better to hold on the shorter ranges than to have to do it at the longer distances. Holding at 800-1000 yards and to do it consistantly enough to get good accuracy will be very difficult and even expert rifleman don't recommend it. Just buy a couple of shims, take off the scope and mount, drop the shims on the rear mount area and then remount and you have extra MOA. It's that easy. Another reason to shim is that it keeps your reticle more centered in your tube which helps especially at long ranges because if the reticle is topped out, it cuts down on your windage travel. And if the wind kicks up you'll need all you can get. It's always better to have your reticle more towards center. It's your rifle though so you take all the info and decide.

 

[Watch-Six]

Two real problems at 1000 yards are wind drift and (like you have already discovered) not enough scope adjustment. Scope bases are available with a slope built in to give you help vertically. If I were you I would just try shooting your gun at 800 yards (assuming you have enough scope adjustment for that distance) and get some experience before you sink much money into the new found interest. With my 308 the difference between 800 and 1000 yard shooting is drastic. The wind really kills you. Watch-Six

 

[labgrade]

True, Rob01, I guess you could "split the difference" & still be able to get at 100 OK.

Never done any long range (past 500 or so) except playing around & never've shimmed.

Pssst, Soda ... defer to those who know more about it than me.

 

[Rob01]

labgrade, your way would have worked if he didn't want to spend any money at all but those targets get really small out that far and it's better to have a clear aiming point. Shims are pretty cheap and easy to install and will work until he get's a tapered base or a scope with more MOA travel.

 

[hps1]

SodaPop:
The "comeups" for a 30-06, using US GI M72 Match ammo (173 gr bullet @ 2640 fps) are as follows:

200yd = zero
300 yd +4.5 min
600 yd +13 "
800 yd +23.5 "
900 yd +30 "
1000 yd +37 "

I have never tried this but am told that to check to see if you have enough adjustment on your sights, use a 2 3/4" bull at 50 yards, hold dead center and see if you can raise sights to hit 12" above poit of aim. This should put you on paper at 800 yards....you will then need another 13.5 minutes for the 1000 yd.

When you fire that first shot @ 1000 yds, be patient, it takes a loooong time for the bullet to get there!

By the way, ditch the 150 grain bullets for 1000 yds...much too light.

regards,
hps

 

[Jamie Young]

I'm presently zeroed at 500yds, with Sierra 200gr soft points. I got pretty close to 1MOA with these bullets, so, I'm pretty sure I'm safe at 800meters. I need 24MOA adjustment from My present zero to get out to 1000yds; according to My calculations.

I only have 15 MOA left from My zero and I need 9 MOA more.