Taking Guns From OC'ers

[Uncle Buck]

I hear a lot of talk about how people risk getting their guns taken away from them if they OC (Taken by a BG).

Is there any evidence of this being an everyday occurrence? How many times has this happened?

I sometimes open carry (Because I can) and have never had anything said about it. I do not even know if most people notice.

 

[mes227]

You raise an interesting question. I've not seen data directly on point but I have read a bit about LEOs having their guns taken away (or attempts to do so) and it's a frequent enough occurrence that there is standard training as well as policies on hosters, safeties, etc to reduce the risk, as well as papers written on the topic. It seems to me that if a BG is intent on attacking you, knowing your sidearm location gives a considerable edge. On the other hand, simply knowing you are armed should be enough to deter most would-be felons. Instintively I'd think the advantage of the latter outweighs the disadvantage of the former.

 

[JohnKSa]

Some time ago I found a police report online that described an incident where a guy open carrying was assaulted and had his gun taken from him. I doubt it happens very much for a couple of reasons.

1. There aren't just a ton of folks out there walking around looking for guns to take.

2. There aren't just a ton of folks out there walking around carrying a gun openly unless you count LEOs. LEOs do get their guns taken on occasion, but it's probably not quite the same dynamic.

Still, if I were going to open carry, I'd look into a good retention holster.

 

[Mike Irwin]

It happens, I would say, about as often as someone waltzes up to someone carrying in a shoulder holster and takes it from the holster.

That's always the big argument, that Mr. BG is going to stick his hand in your armpit and relieve you of your gun while you stand there like a big old lump of stupid...

Anyway, I digress.

Yes, it's probably happened.

But I doubt if it's happened a lot.

 

[JohnKSa]

OC Tactics & Deterrence--a slightly different perspective.

I ran across this article today and noted some parallels between the analysis in the article and the ongoing debate about the tactical benefits of OC. Admittedly this is not about open carry in the conventional sense. But it IS about the deterrent value of openly displayed security measures including openly carried weapons.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/2011...readmore&elq=e394ee84421a4dd88520522458075628

"There are people ... who cling to the erroneous assumption that the mere presence of armed bodyguards provides absolute security. "

"Action is always faster than reaction. And even a highly skilled protection team can be defeated if the attacker gains the tactical element of surprise ... If assailants are able to freely conduct surveillance and plan an attack, they can look for and exploit vulnerabilities..."

"If assailants are given the opportunity to thoroughly assess the protective security program, they will plan ways to defeat the security measures in place... If they choose to attack ... they will do so with adequate resources to overcome those security measures."

"In many cases it is also far more prudent to maintain a low profile and fade into the background rather than utilize a high-profile protective detail..."​

Is there deterrence value in an openly carried firearm or a large security detail? Certainly there is. But as the article notes, that deterrence value should not be overestimated. It may be far more prudent to maintain a low profile rather than count on the deterrence value of openly displayed security measures.

For what it's worth, the people OC'ing in this scenario had their guns taken, although, admittedly, that almost certainly wasn't the point of the attack.

 

[Queue]

When I OCd on the job, I developed a habit of keeping my shooting arm over the holster. (Holster on R hip). It carried over to OCing in civvies. (In Arizona)

If you look like you're going to be a tough nut, BGs, being basically cowards, will not mess with you.

(I was a CO in AZDOC and talked to a LOT of cons about things like this.)[Yeah, I know, they were cons. But after getting to know them, you can pretty much tell who's BSin' ya and who isn't. Never got into a trick bag, myself.]

PS Hogdogs below reminded me of the ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENT: Maintain situational awareness AT ALL TIMES. Carrying or not. That alone can keep you out of deep dooo, most times.

 

[hogdogs]

As a teen we went to the skating rink every friday night. And every friday night we had the same "off duty" cop as "security". He was a younger officer (probably mid 30's) and a perv who would gawk at our gals.

Every friday night I would sneak up behind him and snatch his pistol and immediately be handing it back by the barrel as he spun around.

So it isn't impossible. But I feel if a man is aware of the firearm and his surroundings, it is far more difficult.

I also have an additional ace in the hole... I must also look at it from the financial investment issue.

I just can't afford to lose several hundred dollars worth of tools... let alone one single tool item worth several hundred bucks.

Brent

 

[ClayInTx]

I carry a gun for self defense. If I am stupid enough to open carry I deserve having it taken from me.

 

[hogdogs]

If I am stupid enough to open carry I deserve having it taken from me.

Where does the "stupid" part come from? LEOs are STUPID?

Or am I stupid because I want the ability to wear comfortable clothing and find anything more than a loop around my belt to be uncomfortable?

Am I stupid because I was taught to wear my shirts tucked in and since that is how I dressed myself for 38 of 42 years on earth, wearing a shirt that is not tucked in feels awkward and uncomfortable?

Am I stupid because I often have less than sterile hands and don't like to rub my hands against a shirt to clear my pants pocket to reach for an item?

Am I stupid because I will "flash" my firearm when clearing the shirt to access a pocket?

Am I stupid because I am aware of my surroundings and wouldn't give away my firearm?

Or am I stupid because I DO NOT DESERVE to have it taken from me?

If you feel it makes you stupid and that you are unable to recognize a threat before the fella has taken your gun from you because you deserve not to have it more than him... That is all you. I prefer to consider the individual and their preference and options.

The only reason I do not carry a firearm with a permit is because I CANNOT carry it it plain view like my Leatherman on one side and Buck knife on the other side.

If I could carry open but it would cost $500 compared to $50.00 for concealed... I would wait until I could afford the other $450.00

Brent

 

[Willie D]

I don't advertise that I have $20 on me, let alone a firearm worth $400+ with a street resale value worth double that.

 

[Skans]

The only point I see to open carry is that there is no physical limit on how large a firearm you can carry. Conceal carry has some real practical limitations on the size of the firearm you can carry. My CC gun only holds 6 rounds of .45 ACP. If I could open carry, I might choose a gun that could hold 15 rounds of .40 or 10+ rounds of .45.

 

[Edward429451]

Concealed carry is not the be all end all way to carry and everyone else is dumb...I've never had my weapon snatched and I've been OC in CO since 1989.

I was a security guard for awhile too and no snarky young guy could sneak up on me and snatch my gun!

 

[markj]

the tactical benefits of OC

Are therre any? It does give it away upon sight. Why not keep it hidden and a surprise for the BG? I just dont understand why some want to advertise they gots a gun on em. I can understand a rural setting with a large 44mag and a hunting situation.

 

[Skans]

The biggest tactical advantage to open carry is accessibility. IMHO, its significantly harder and more time consuming to draw your weapon from CC as opposed to OC. Also, bigger gun means more bullets. More bullets means greater tactical advantage.

If there were no tactical advantage to open carry, I suppose the military would all carry concealed. Seems obvious to me.

 

[Wildalaska]

If there were no tactical advantage to open carry, I suppose the military would all carry concealed. Seems obvious to me.

Yeah except the military carries em chamber unloaded unless in a firefight, dont they?

I see NO tactical benefit in OC.

WildandciviesarentLEsonocomaprisonsapplyAlaska ™©2002-2011

 

[hogdogs]

I consider the larger bore while maintaining a decent round capacity to be a tactical advantage. I also prefer the longer barrels over the shorter barrels with in reason.

I personally would prefer something larger than 9mm and the .40 or .45 acp s right up there on my list.

None of the guns I would shop for with SD in mind would fit the description of "easily concealable".

And if I were carrying it concealed, my sweat would quickly damage the finish of the pretty bluing.

No one wants their gun to be prematurely ugly and rusty.

Brent

 

[teumessian_fox]

This is the only one I've ever heard of.

http://www.2aforum.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=243650&gonew=1#UNREAD

-also-

Fairfax County Police Department

Public Information Office
4100 Chain Bridge Road, Fairfax, Va. 22030

703-246-2253. TTY 703-204-2264. Fax 703-246-4253

FCPD-PIO@fairfaxcounty.gov

www.fairfaxcounty.gov

News Release: 06/211/0388/RJP/(1)

July 31, 2006

Man robbed in the Centreville area.

About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim’s head. The suspects took the victim’s hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect’s then fled the area. The victim was not injured.

The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.

Anyone with information about this incident or these suspects is asked to call Crime Solvers at 1-866-411-TIPS (8477) or the police non-emergency number at 703-691-2131.

 

[Wildalaska]

21 years old. Walking around OC at 4:10 am.


WildandfolkswonderwhyiobjecttoocAlaska ™©2002-2011

 

[Uncle Buck]

Thanks Brent, that was a very good reply.

I was not talking about a tactical advantage though. (Although maybe a bad situation does not develop because "That dude is carrying!")

WA: As of October 2004, Air force Security Forces personal carried their 9mm load with a round in the chamber, safety off. All they had to do was draw and fire.

M-16 were loaded with a magazine, but no round chambered except in certain circumstances and locations.

I mainly OC when I am doing chores at the farm. Sometimes I actually forget I have the gun strapped on (and strapped in) and have to run to town for parts or something.

 

[TXGunNut]

OC sounds like a great idea in some situations but we don't have that option in TX (yet). Many LE's carry concealed when not in uniform as well, depends on department policy, weather, or both. I've always felt concealed carry gave me a tactical advantage, I don't attract attention and nobody watches me. OTOH I learned long ago that the average BG is not likely to spend much time on planning and tactics. As long as my equipment, training and tactics are sound, I feel I have an advantage when CC. OC, to me, involves spending too much time trying to predict the actions of unpredictable felons.