T/C Renegade With Round Ball?

[44caliberkid]

I have a T-C Renegade 54 caliber, that shoots great with Maxi-balls or Prairie bullets. I was wanting to try round balls but was wondering if the rifling twist might be optimized for long, conical bullets. How is your experience shooting round balls, before I buy any.

 

[4V50 Gary]

I've shot RB in a two band Enfield (24") and it sucked. Stick with the right bullet for the bore.

 

[thallub]

The vast majority of .54 TC Renegade rifles have a 1/48" rifling twist rate. 1/48" twist rate is a compromise. It shoots decent groups with both conicals and round balls.

https://americanlongrifles.org/foru...id /,run of RB barreled Hawkens with 1-66 ROT.

 

[Pahoo]

Agree

The vast majority of .54 TC Renegade rifles have a 1/48" rifling twist rate. 1/48" twist rate is a compromise. It shoots decent groups with both conicals and round balls

True and you are going to get varying replies to this thread. ....
It is what it is and now you have to establish, your "Shot-String". I have shot target with PRB and mostly hunted with conicals; both with great results but had to work with it. Regardless of your "Shot-String", You will estabish an optimum hunting load and target load. My Optimum target shot-string is more critical than my hunting load. The TC manual and others, list these loads but range-time, is always in order, for your confirmation.........

Be Safe !!!

 

[Oliver Sudden]

It will shoot round ball very well with a tight patch and 70-80 grains of 2FG .
Original Hawken rifles had 1 in 48” rifling with deeper grooves.

 

[thallub]

IMO: Go with the round balls.

Began hunting with .50 and .54 caliber TC New Englander rifles in 2013 after Fort Sill outlawed the use of inline rifles the first week of muzzleloader season. After testing round balls and conicals on wild hogs i chose to use patched round balls. i use a tight fitting ball seated hard on the powder.

At short range .50 caliber and .54 caliber round balls kill as well as 150 and 180 grain bullets fired from .30-06 rifles.

Since 2013 i've killed 8-10 deer using .54 caliber patched round balls. Most kills were from blinds and tree stands overlooking trails, game plots, wheat fields and ponds at ranges of <60 yards. Also killed 8-10 deer with a .50 caliber and patched round balls. i much prefer high shoulder and high behind the shoulder shots. Over 50 percent of my deer taken with round balls were bang flops.

My firing range and hunting loads are identical: My current conventional .54 caliber rifle uses 100 grains of Black MZ powder. That Navy Arms rifle has deep rounded grooves and a 1/66" twist rate.

 

[FrankenMauser]

I've owned one and spent time with three .54 cals. One had a 1:60" twist. The others were 1:48".

They all shot roundballs quite well.

I now, begrudgingly, have a .50 cal with a 1:48" twist. (I want another .54!) It shoots roundballs great. So well, that the conicals that I bought in anticipation of being disappointed by RB performance have not been opened.

I will say that I have found the 1:48" twists to do better with lighter powder charges than most people *want* to run. The sweet spot in the .50 and my first .54 was 70-73 gr Goex FFg (by volume). They still shoot "minute of deer" or better up to 90 gr; but best groups were at lower velocity. On the other hand, the 60" twist shot great, all the way up to 110 gr FFg.


Performance on game has been great. Every recovered ball showed that it impacted with a stable spin, and mushroomed and continued penetrating while remaining stable (until or unless it hit bone).
I saw my first RB kill and recovery in 1998. I was sold when I saw that mushroomed ball. I haven't seen another that disappointed me since then.

My Optimum target shot-string is more critical than my hinting load. The TC manual and others, list these loads but range-time, is always in order, for your confirmation.

My current hunting muzzleloader, the .50 cal, must be fired at least once and fouled before it can be trusted. The first shot always goes way high - like 8-9 inches - and usually has some windage as well. But after that, it'll shoot dead-nuts, at about 1-3/4" at 100 yd if the shooter does their part. On a bad shooter day, it is still a 4-minute or better rifle. Good enough for the intended ranges and game.

 

[Pahoo]

Don't forget the Fun-Factor

How is your experience shooting round balls, before I buy any.

I Got started with the TC-Hawken model, during the M/L Renascence period and at that time, only shot PRB, in keeping with the my BuckSkinner days. Sidelocks and PRB's were mandatory at our yearly Deer-Camp. I would say that I have killed more deer with PRB's than Conicals. Just don't try to push them too hard. I still run my own projectiles and "still" having fun !!! ....

Be Safe !!!

 

[armoredman]

My only BP rifles is a TC Renegade, and it shoots round ball quite well. I have tried the Lee Minie, and I cannot get that one to work right to save my life - what Minie are you using?

 

[bamaranger]

renegade

The book answer what some others have indicated, The Renegade "should" be twisted 1-48 which is an intermediate, compromise twist rate in an attempt to satisfy both RB and conical shooters. But....

I have read elsewhere that there may be some Renegades twisted slower from the factory, intended for PRB. You may also have an aftermarket barrel, so my question is......have you measured the twist rate? I have 3 sidelock traditional ML rifles, and I was wrong about the twist rate on two of them.....for many years now mind you, 'till I measured them. My TC White Mtn carbine, which shot PRB into plate sized groups turned out to be twisted 1-20!!!!

The two .50 TC rifles with 1-48 twist with which I have experience have shot PRB very well with a modest load of 50 gr FFF and cut denim patch. I did not hunt (deer) with PRB as I am a big believer in conicals. The PRB's won me hams at several ML matches back in the day. Conveniently, at 50 yds, the .50's both shot the heavy Maxi (375 gr) with 80 gr FFF to the same POI, so I could shoot matches with PRB and hunt with heavy conicals with no sight change!

As an aside, he price of factory Maxiballs has driven me to start casting my own conicals. If not casting, I could see the attraction of PRB, as even commercial lead balls are cheaper than the Maxi's, but that's all for another post.

 

[Jim Watson]

Conveniently, at 50 yds, the .50's both shot the heavy Maxi (375 gr) with 80 gr FFF to the same POI, so I could shoot matches with PRB and hunt with heavy conicals with no sight change!

But you said your .32 doesn't.

 

[Pahoo]

Very Forgivng

How is your experience shooting round balls, before I buy any.

One good thing about a lead-round-ball, is that they are very forgiving and provide good performance; even the ones, I run. I've given most of my conicals away and pretty much stick to PRB's. ......

Enjoy and;
Be Safe !!!

 

[bamaranger]

Yes I did!!!!!!!!!!!

Correct, my little .32 CVA Squirrel will not print RB and my self cast .32 Maxi (cute little things) to the same POI. The Maxi's come in -3" or more low from the RB at 50 yds. I have not experimented with charge weights and have only tested with 25gr FFF for both. I will soon start a thread on my .32 and the addition of a peep sight to the little rifle.

The .32 Squirrel is a good example of learning your twist rate by measuring. I had believed for 30 years or more that the dainty rifle was twisted 1-48". I got around to measuring....surprise, surprise, surprise! Dang thing is 1-56".
Which explains why PRB has always been a bit more accurate than my cute Maxi's. But I like the Maxi's as they are a whole lot easier to load.

So to keep the thread on track, determine your twist rate by measuring. Verify which projectile your rifle shoots the most accurately if best accuracy is your goal. One may be willing to sacrifice a bit of accuracy for economy's sake, as in RB, or punch, as in conical.