Swiss Phoenix pistols...

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bac1023

New member
I bought a couple of these recently and I'm extremely impressed. Phoenix was started a couple of years ago by the former owner of Sphinx. Their shop is in Interlaken, Switzerland.

They have four models currently, all of which are based on the CZ 75 design:

Fusion - Duty pistol
Redback - Competition pistol
Drake - Limited pistol
Raptor - Open gun

Unfortunately, the Drake and Raptor aren't approved for import yet, but I'll have a Drake as soon as they are. The Fusion is a new and improved Sphinx SDP, while the Redback is a new and improved Sphinx 3000.

The Fusion is available in a Compact, Tactical, or Standard. The Tactical is basically a Compact with some additions. The Standard is the full size gun. All Fusions are a combination of three materials. The slide is steel, the frame is aluminum, and the grip is polymer. Its also available in all black or with an FDE frame and grip. Mine is an all black Standard (ST) model.

The Redback is available in DA/SA or SAO. Its also available in all steel or a couple combinations of steel and aluminum. The Light has an aluminum grip. The Ultra Light has an aluminum grip and frame. They are also available in all silver, all black, or two tone. Mine is a silver, all steel, DA/SA pistol.

Build quality is second to none. I'm fortunate enough to own examples of all the high end pistols built over the past several decades and I would put the Redback right at or near the top of the list. Its certainly nicer than any other high end "production" or semi custom pistol I have in my collection. Even Sig Mastershop pistols and Smith & Wesson PC pistols can't match the quality of the Redback. I have Pardinis, high end CZ's, Alien Pistols, many high end 1911's, and a bunch of others to compare it to. They don't match this gun. That's how good it is.

The Fusion uses less expensive materials and has less machining, but the build quality and fitting is just as nice as the Redback.

I know Phoenix is relatively unknown. They are a small company that only produces a limited amount of guns per month and per year. However, I'm here to say that you won't find a nicer production/semi custom semi auto handgun produced today.

Does anyone else have hands on experience with these pistols?

Enjoy the pics...














 
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bac1023

New member
Nope 9mm only

The Drake and Raptor are available In 40.

They aren’t large for 9mm in any way. They are no bigger than a 1911, Beretta 92, P226, etc, etc. I never understood the concept in the first place, but to each their own.
 
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JustJake

New member
* * * They aren’t large for 9mm in any way. They are no bigger than a 1911, Beretta 92, P226, etc, etc. I never understood the concept in the first place, but to each their own.
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Thanks for re-enforcing my point. ;)

All those guns you just named are oversized/overbuilt for the ballistics of the 9mm cartridge. Notice I didn't say they weren't good pistols. They are. It's that they're unnecessarily large and/or heavy in relation to the round they're chambered for. Not a difficult concept to grasp. For cartridges like the .40, .45, or 10mm, their larger size is fine and an advantage in handling recoil.

The ideal size pistol for the 9mm is the Glock 19. Notice I said size, not that the G19 itself is the ideal pistol. The G19 offers the perfect size/weight ratio for a gun chambered for the 9mm cartridge.
 
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bac1023

New member
You’re missing the point. Guns don’t have to be as small or as light as possible for their given round. It’s a competition gun. Extra size and weight is welcome at times.

Could they be chambered for 40? Sure, but they’re European pistols and 9mm is even more relevant there than it is here. Phoenix is a small company and kept the caliber to the bare minimum.
 
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Forte S+W

New member
They look really nice, but I can't help but feel like their aesthetic similarity to the CZ Shadow 2 may be detrimental towards their sales. It's hard to convince people that a more expensive variant of pistol design made by another manufacturer is superior to the original, and even though it may be 10x better than a CZ, most folks who are into CZs aren't likely going to pay extra for a look-a-like.

Heck, the Tanfoglio Witness Elite is arguably superior to the CZ Shadow, yet more folks buy the CZ over it, despite the fact that the Witness is cheaper because they just want a CZ.

More gun manufacturers ought to be more creative when it comes to the aesthetic design of their pistols, especially when they're high end firearms since folks tend to expect more expensive guns to have visually superior fit/finish.
 
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bac1023

New member
Not really

People spend money on Nighthawks, Wilson’s, etc. I don’t think Colt is hurting their sales.

I will say that Phoenix is a small boutique gun company. High volume isn’t their objective in the first place.
 
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Forte S+W

New member
The thing is though, the 1911 has long since become a design which is offered by a wide variety of manufacturers, and all under more or less the same name.

The CZ75 design has also been offered by a few different companies, (Sphinx, IMI, Tanfoglio, etc) but not nearly as many as the 1911, and unlike the 1911, most iterations of the CZ75 have completely different names, and often have slightly different aesthetics to set them apart. So making such a close copy of the CZ Shadow 2 without a big name to back it up could make it appear to be "just another clone" to a lot of prospective buyers who are looking for a high quality race gun, whereas if it had more unique overall aesthetics, especially flashier aesthetics to help set it apart from the CZ Shadow 2.
Just imagine the Redback if it had fish-scale slide serrations and a metalic red finish and orange G10 grips with snake-scale checkering like a fire-breathing dragon.

Like I said, it's a good-looking gun, and I'm sure that it's much higher quality than the CZ Shadow 2, but I think it needs a more unique appearance to set it apart from the CZ so that it isn't compared directly to it.
It seems like a lot of German/Swiss firearms manufacturers are being extremely low-key about aesthetics these days, which they shouldn't be because as well-known as German guns are for their quality, they're also known for their unique designs and style, so making high quality guns which are otherwise just derivatives of existing guns seems like a step in the wrong direction. Sure, it makes more sense to stick with tried and true designs than to reinvent the wheel with some convoluted new design, so that's actually a step in the right direction, but the appearance is too plain in my opinion. Race guns are supposed to be like race cars, designed for speed and precision, but dressed up to look flashy and eye-catching.
 
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JustJake

New member
Heck, the Tanfoglio Witness Elite is arguably superior to the CZ Shadow, yet more folks buy the CZ over it, despite the fact that the Witness is cheaper because they just want a CZ.
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Tanfoglio Witnesses fit the budgets of workin' class folks who don't have the discretionary income of an Elon Musk or Donald Trump Jr. to lay out the BIG $$$ for a Sphinx or a Phoenix. :rolleyes:
 
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