Surplus M4s?
- Thread starter dahermit
- Start date
Aguila Blanca
Staff
How ironic that declared terrorists are given select-fire American-made combat weapons, but patriotic American citizens can't be trusted with the same firearms.
"One can only speculate if the fall of the Afghan Army will enable American made surplus M4s to hit the market."
You can speculate 'til the cows come home, but those can not/will not ever hit the US commercial market...they are select-fire. They may hit some underground international gun-smuggling market, but good luck with that.
You can speculate 'til the cows come home, but those can not/will not ever hit the US commercial market...they are select-fire. They may hit some underground international gun-smuggling market, but good luck with that.
Yes they will be, if not already are on the market in KABUL.
you won't see them on the legal US market, EVER.
Unless we repeal the Hughes Amendment, or the entire NFA 34.
The "never been fired, only dropped once" joke has been applied to a lot of WWII French and Italian rifles.
I'm pretty sure the Afghan army fired their M4s..at least in training..with ammo our tax dollars paid for...
It's my understanding that we have a digital record of the serial numbers. So in theory we could trace guns that get resold in other parts of the world and used in acts of terrorism. Not that I imagine we will.
I think that could go either way, especially given the cluster in Afghanistan now.
I think that could go either way, especially given the cluster in Afghanistan now.
Just out of curiosity, I wonder how much (and what) US OWNED material was left behind. US made material, sold or given to the Afghan govt is no longer our responsibility, its theirs, which is a different matter than US owned material being left for the Taliban to take.
This may seem like a minor point, but its not. The press is already beating their drum over how the US pullout "armed" the Taliban with modern equipment, completely ignoring the failure of those people the US trusted to do what we expected them to do.
Unlike WWII but like Vietnam, when we left Afghanistan we left an armed, organized "enemy" force in the field to fight the govt we left behind us. Not even remotely like what happened in Germany and Japan in 1945.
popular history today teaches that after we left (actually as we were leaving) the govt of South Vietnam fell, "because it was corrupt" completely ignoring the fact of half a dozen or so NVA divisions (including a couple armored divisions) invading the country, in addition to the Viet Cong already there.
What will "popular" history say about Afghanistan in a few years, I wonder...
This may seem like a minor point, but its not. The press is already beating their drum over how the US pullout "armed" the Taliban with modern equipment, completely ignoring the failure of those people the US trusted to do what we expected them to do.
Unlike WWII but like Vietnam, when we left Afghanistan we left an armed, organized "enemy" force in the field to fight the govt we left behind us. Not even remotely like what happened in Germany and Japan in 1945.
popular history today teaches that after we left (actually as we were leaving) the govt of South Vietnam fell, "because it was corrupt" completely ignoring the fact of half a dozen or so NVA divisions (including a couple armored divisions) invading the country, in addition to the Viet Cong already there.
What will "popular" history say about Afghanistan in a few years, I wonder...
I can't figure out the logic behind the way we left Bagram. Sure seems like a mistake now.
Yup, and the communists that the Soviets left in power held on in Afghanistan for several years. Our guy lasted two days.
But it appears that the Chinese will be facing a mix of M4s and AKs in the not too distant future.
gbclarkson
New member
Really? Show of hands - Who here thinks that the Taliban will use their newly acquire firearms responsibly?
reynolds357
New member
According to what Trump said last night, the U S. Still owned multiple Blackhawks, tanks, and Bradley's that were left there. Hardware was on loan to Afghan Army.Just out of curiosity, I wonder how much (and what) US OWNED material was left behind. US made material, sold or given to the Afghan govt is no longer our responsibility, its theirs, which is a different matter than US owned material being left for the Taliban to take.
This may seem like a minor point, but its not. The press is already beating their drum over how the US pullout "armed" the Taliban with modern equipment, completely ignoring the failure of those people the US trusted to do what we expected them to do.
Unlike WWII but like Vietnam, when we left Afghanistan we left an armed, organized "enemy" force in the field to fight the govt we left behind us. Not even remotely like what happened in Germany and Japan in 1945.
popular history today teaches that after we left (actually as we were leaving) the govt of South Vietnam fell, "because it was corrupt" completely ignoring the fact of half a dozen or so NVA divisions (including a couple armored divisions) invading the country, in addition to the Viet Cong already there.
What will "popular" history say about Afghanistan in a few years, I wonder...
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reynolds357
New member
They will sell more than they will use.
Apparently there's some Afgahn pilots fleeing the country with their aircraft. Wonder what the market is for a (slightly) used war plane or helicopter?
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation...ing-aircraft-and-themselves-from-the-taliban/
(I suspect that right now, supply and demand being what it is, the market is somewhat depressed.)
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation...ing-aircraft-and-themselves-from-the-taliban/
(I suspect that right now, supply and demand being what it is, the market is somewhat depressed.)
Dfariswheel
New member
A major reason South Vietnam fell is because the Dimocrat congress in the USA cut off all ammo supplies and stopped all air cover.
This in spite of "solemn promises" to provide both made during the Peace Accords that got us out.
With no ammo and no air cover, they were over run by tanks.
Not that the SV military was much of a real fighting force other then a few units.
They, like the Afghan army were not much interested in actual combat.
I would expect some M16 rifles to be sold internationally by the Taliban for needed money, but as long as the ammo holds out I suspect they'll use them as a better upgrade to the AK's that are starting to wear badly from use and neglect.
A lot of US M16 rifles left in Vietnam still turn up in Africa and Asia.
Strange.
Biden wants to ban all "assault weapons of war" from American citizens, but allows real weapons of war to fall into the hands of a group of 12th Century religious fanatic mountain bandits.
Operation Fast and Furious by Obama-Biden looks like a piker operation by comparison.
This in spite of "solemn promises" to provide both made during the Peace Accords that got us out.
With no ammo and no air cover, they were over run by tanks.
Not that the SV military was much of a real fighting force other then a few units.
They, like the Afghan army were not much interested in actual combat.
I would expect some M16 rifles to be sold internationally by the Taliban for needed money, but as long as the ammo holds out I suspect they'll use them as a better upgrade to the AK's that are starting to wear badly from use and neglect.
A lot of US M16 rifles left in Vietnam still turn up in Africa and Asia.
Strange.
Biden wants to ban all "assault weapons of war" from American citizens, but allows real weapons of war to fall into the hands of a group of 12th Century religious fanatic mountain bandits.
Operation Fast and Furious by Obama-Biden looks like a piker operation by comparison.