surplus and/or C&R purchase suggestions

[chopz]

hi,

just thought i'd dive right in and start a thread as my first post. thanks for letting me join in!

i'm interested in purchasing one of the following: p38, cz52, cz82 or a makarov. i wouldn't mind owning all of them eventually.

i might be purchasing online, sight unseen, which makes me a little nervous. also, i've never handled a cz52; are they hard or uncomfortable to shoot? p38 would just be 9x19, so that wouldn't be a problem, but what about the availability of ammo for the other choices? any comments on which gun would be your first choice? which to avoid?

alternately, i've also been thinking a new cz83 in .380 might be kinda cool - they look pretty darn nice in the satin nickel finish.

 

[Magyar]

i might be purchasing online, sight unseen, which makes me a little nervous

I've learned my lesson on buying used on-line....Hair-line fractures, jamomatics, etc... I realize when personally examining a pistol, some variables will still be hidden; but least you can eliminate a few...I went over-board with my C&R at first; but am more subdued now-a-days...
I will purchase only n.i.b. on-line....The overly-used expression "it's a crap-shoot" is relevant....
BTW, welcome to the forum....

 

[Fal 4 Me]

might be purchasing online, sight unseen, which makes me a little nervous

Go with a dealer that has a good reputation and you should be good. I've heard very little, if anything, bad about AIM and Classic Arms.

alternately, i've also been thinking a new cz83 in .380 might be kinda cool - they look pretty darn nice in the satin nickel finish

Surplus CZ 83's cost about 200 to 250. Even the local Gander Mountain had a new and a surplus CZ 83 last time I was there. Surplus was $250, new was around 500.

Just throwing it out there, as I am no expert. Actually I'm thinking about purchasing one of these models also. The CZ 52 is looking better with $50 9mm barrels available for it.

 

[Technosavant]

The big thing is to buy from reputable dealers. I will usually go with Classic Arms or AIM Surplus before the rest, but there's many others with decent reputations.

Buying most milsurps is not the same as buying "used." You can usually depend on the reported conditions of the firearms (depends on your vendors) and the vast majority of times you'll get a good shooter (once you've given it a good cleaning).

 

[w_houle]

a vote for the cz-52

The CZ-52 is fun to shoot, the only drawback being that I don't like that there is no thumbcatch on the on the slide catch, so when the last round is fired, you drop the magazine and replace it with a fresh one you have to grab the slide to let it forward rather than flicking it shut with your thumb. The CZ-52 also has a kick similar to a 9x19, just a few words...

 

[Average Joe]

All good choices, as far as on line dealers go, I have had good experiences with Aim.

 

[joab]

I have never received a bad gun from AIM or SOG. If I did I always had the option of returning it

CZ52s are not hard to shoot but they are different

I could not hit anything with mine the first time I shot it
I was going to send it back, but gave it one more chance and reduced my group in half
Still don't know what i was doing wrong but it's cured now

7.62 x 25 is not hard to get and is fairly cheap

 

[Festschrift]

I purchased 2 CZ-82's from AIM Surplus. I have been very pleased with both of them so far. The finish was decent (for 20+ year old guns), they both shoot accurately and well--overall, very pleased. It is a crapshoot when ordering guns, but since these are C&R's, I knew I was getting an old gun and was prepared for that.

AIM had them to me within 3 days, so all in all, it was a very good transaction.

 

[saands]

The Mak is an elegantly designed pistol ... but the only C&R versions are the ones from East Germany at $300+

The CZ82 is a very nice choice ... I think that it is actually a better value than the Mak at current prices. Get the CZ in the native 9x18 ... it is plenty easy to find ammo and the 9x18 is a tad more potent than the 9x17 (.380).

The CZ-52 is a Hoot, but it is a fullsized. The 9x19 conversions are not likely to be 100 percent reliable, though, so I wouldn't base my decision on being able to shoot 9x19 at will.

Don't forget the Walther PP ... the Manhurin versions are C&R and are quite nice.

If you can find one, the Argentine Sistema Colt is a licensed copy of the 1911 and is 100% compatible with the 1911 ... a GREAT C&R find if you run across one.

HTH
Saands

 

[kozak6]

The CZ-52 has a rather bizarre grip. I wouldn't recommend buying one without being able to handle one first.

It kicks a bit more than a 9mm para, but it's still quite manageable. However, it's extraordinarily loud, and depending on the ammo used, muzzle flash can be very impressive. If you don't really shoot the boomers, it can make you flinch until you get used to it. The sights are also a little small.

Ammo can be hard to find locally, but is common enough on the internet.

The thing about converting it to 9mm is that it doesn't just cost $50. You also need to track down some extra parts that should bring the total price to somewhere between $75-$100. Also, 9mm barrels are uncommon and only have become availible again after being unobtainium for several years.

At absolute worst, conversion to 9mm will involve filing the extractor and tweaking the mags. It's not unknown for them to work out of the box, though.

And also, it can be comparatively slow to reload. It has a heel magazine release, and there is no external slide release. You have to slingshot the slide.

If you are offered a choice, get a grey one. The black ones are rearsenaled, and tend to have more cosmoline inside.

 

[tulsamal]

Also, 9mm barrels are uncommon and only have become availible again after being unobtainium for several years.

AIM has them right now for $50.

Never tried a 9mm barrel in my CZ52. Just pointing out where you could buy one if you wanted to try. The "right" ammo is so inexpensive to buy in bulk on the net that I'm not sure I see the point!

Gregg

 

[saands]

The CZ-52 has a rather bizarre grip. I wouldn't recommend buying one without being able to handle one first.

True on the grip ... but the price on a 52 is SOOO reasonable, that there just isn't that much to lose if you don't like it

Ohhhh ... don't overlook the fun of the Russian Nagant revolver ... these can be a lot of fun as well and are an interesting design ... and at less than $80 should be in everyone's collection

Also, a comment on C&R vendors. My experiences with AIM and J&G sales is that they almost always under-rate the condition of their items ... the guys at AIM talked me out of buying a FN Hi-power several years back ... when I saw my brother's, I was pretty upset ... it was in perfectly fine shape. SOG seems to be pretty accurate on their descriptions of condition. I had one piece arrive from them with a faulty safety and they not only got me a new one the same week, they also paid me for the FedEx shipping of the first one back to them. This was on a $129 pistol ... so as far as I can tell, they were out at least $60+ in FedEx plus an unsellable pistol, plus their time on a $129 sale and they were quite pleasant about it ... I was (am) a happy customer there. I've never dealt with Classic or Empire but I've heard good things on both counts. Century sometimes has good deals and their stuff usually matches the description pretty well, but they are an importer and it seems that AIM and SOG seem to get first pick ... so when a shipment of something comes in, the VG+ copies all seem to go to AIM, J&G and SOG while Century sells off all the FAIR/POOR copies. That being said, if you are looking for some project platforms, sometimes Century is the best place to go ... not for collectors, though.

Don't forget to get you accounts set up with Brownells and MidwayUSA as well as the discounts there will save you a ton of money!

Saands

 

[O.S.O.K.]

cz-52 and C&R purchases

I suspect that those advocating "handle before you buy" are not C&R holders - not that it's a bad idea, just that there are so many good wholesalers that offer C&R firearms.

AIM, SOG, Classic are all good ones as mentioned. There are many many others too, not to mention gunbroker (caveat emptor).

The Cz-52/Vz-52 is a big handgun in proportion to it's round (7.62x25). It is a well made pistol but does have a reputation of chewing up firing pins. The 7.62x25 is a hot round and produces a very loud muzzle blast and usually some prestigeous muzzle flash as well. In other words, its a hoot to shoot but be sure to wear ear plugs/muffs. Also, the surplus ammo available is usually good and economical but modern factory ammo is relatively expensive and not very prevailent.

I do not recommend the 9x19 conversions. They usually don't work worth a crap.

As to the Cz-82, I've got one on order right now from AIM.

 

[Doyle]

Tulsamal, the Aim 9mm barrels are $50 (they were out last I checked) however, they are not complete. You still have to buy a set of rollers, a roller block, and a roller block pin. The whole setup is about $100. Makarov.com used to sell the complete setup but they haven't had any in quite a while. I occasionally see a complete set go on Ebay and they frequently go for more than a C-note.

I've got a CZ-52 with 3 mags and the extra 9mm bbl that I acquired in a trade. I've never even shot it. I think I'm into it about $275 (including one clip full of MagSafe defense rounds). I've been thinking about trading it away or selling it outright. Or - I may just hold onto it since the price seems to be rising. I guess it just depends on what comes around that interests me.

 

[hdawson228]

Another vote for Classic Arms. Real nice people to deal with.

 

[outlaw6]

+1 for Classic Arms. I bought a Swiss K-31 from them and was very pleased with it.

Also, don't count out that Polish P-64. I have one that I use for summertime CC. I am amazed at how accurate it is.

 

[glockorama]

CZ-82, AIM Surplus $209

 

[Wrangler5]

I usually carry a Makarov that I got from makarov dot com (they are strangely out of Makarovs at the moment, though) and would order from them again in a heartbeat. They do have the CZ-82s on hand, and if I were in the market for one of those I'd be placing an order in the morning. The other C&R vendors mentioned are also good folks to deal with, from all I've read over the years.

You'll never regret buying a Makarov (but be warned, it is often difficult to buy only one - I had 3 within 3 months of buying the first one.) They are dead nuts reliable, amazingly accurate, and just plain fun to shoot. They also have a 22 rimfire conversion set that is a lot of fun too - I have one more or less permanently mounted on a Bulgarian Mak and it's my favorite 22 auto.

The only knock I've heard on the CZ-82 is that it has a particular spring that is prone to falling out or getting messed up somehow, and is the only part that is NOT replaceable from current CZ parts inventories. But I've held a CZ-82 and thought it felt great in the hand - someday I'll have one of them too. There has to be a fix for the spring.

I've only held a CZ-52, but it was a big, heavy, funky block of steel. Supposed to shoot a nasty cartridge, though. Apart from their VERY reasonable price, I don't personally see any attraction.

I've had a P-38 for about 40 years. It's pretty big and heavy for an 8-round 9mm, has a pretty lousy double action pull, and will not feed hollow point ammo reliably from a full magazine although some HP will feed reliably if there are 7 or less in the mag. It also ejects to the left, which will upset right-handed shooters standing to your left. I'm thinking of selling mine, since I don't shoot it any more, so wouldn't put one very high on a purchase list. They are a historic gun, though, in that they pretty much started the double action 9mm service pistol trend that continues even today.