surplus 5.56 in bolt guns?

[1911A1 fan]

I'm going to start coyote hunting soon and it seems that I can get surplus .223 cheaper than I can handload 22-250. So has anyone out there had much luck with the military stuff? I'm not looking for dime size groups or anything, min. of coyote out to 200yrds is all I'm looking for.

 

[leej]

I am going to give you some good advice . Take the military surplus garbage and throw it in the nearest trash can.

The difference between the surplus junk and a good handload with match bullets is about 2 to 3 inch groups (on a good day) and 1/4 inch groups out of good handloads. I am not joking. Military ammo is basically blaster ammo and is not very good for precision long range shooting.

If you want a tack driving load try 26 grains of BLC2 and a 52 or 55 grain Sierra bullet. Or you can load of couse use the Sierra 69 grain match bullet with BLC2 but with less powder due to the heavier bullet. A properly beded bolt gun with a 1 in 9 twist should shoot less than 1/2 inch with some groups easily going into 1/4 inch. Also you must have a light but safe trigger pull. Anything more than 2 lbs. is simply defeating your purpose. I prefer nothing more than 2 or 3 ounces. Thats right 2 or 3 ounces. To get this you will need a very expensive custom trigger but this will give you consistantly small groups not just good groups once in a while on a good day.

You will also need a top quality scope. If you spend less than $500.00 you again are defeating your purpose. I can not emphasize how important a good scope is to consistanly good groups. A good scope is the Leupold 6 to 24 power it is very versatile under a wide variety of ranges and lighting conditions.

 

[BigG]

It'll work for your purposes. I get 3" groups out of my iron sighted AR15 SP1 at 100. With scope it only gets better.

 

[Art Eatman]

At one time or another I've shot about every stray sort of .223 stuff there is. All of it was plenty good for coyotes.

The coyotes didn't think so, of course.

, Art

 

[maxinquaye]

Military stuff may not be that accurate, but I was able to get 10/10 every time at 500 yards in the USMC, with an old beater M-16 and iron sites. So it can't be that bad

 

[dZ]

hey, is 5.56 & .223 the same thing?

 

[Keith J]

dz has a point

Many of us have seen this topic a few times... .223 Rem and 5.56 x 45 NATO are not the same thing. While you can safely fire .223 Remington in all 5.56 rifles, the reverse isn't always the same.

Why is Winchester Q3131a labeled as 5.56mm? BECAUSE ITS DIFFERENT than WW-Super 55 grain.

Many manufacturers of rifles, specifically Ruger and Savage chamber their rifles to permit 5.56 usuage but some older rifles, namely Kimber, will not tolerate any 5.56 ammo.

Careful now, some 5.56 labeled ammo is not a problem. Radway Green (British) 5.56 is one example.

What ever you do, do NOT fire Win Q3131 (no A) in any rifle not stamped for 5.56. I would also include any rifle that is rifled 1:12 as this is a good indicator of the throating difference between 5.56 and .223

 

[Art Eatman]

Hey, Keith! "Why is Winchester Q3131a labeled as 5.56mm? BECAUSE ITS DIFFERENT than WW-Super 55 grain."

So, in what way is it different?

Art

 

[Poodleshooter]

Probably he means pressure/velocity wise. Commercial ammo quotes 55gr .223 velocities of 3240 from a 24" bbl. Out of my 20" bbled Colt HBAR, IMI contracted Q3131A does a chronographed 3250fps. regular commercial 55gr. ammo runs about 3000-3100fps. It seems to be a bit hotter than commercially manufactured ammo. Honestly, I don't worry about it either way. I'm sure plenty of hot .223 handloads have run through .223 barrels with more pressure than any 5.56 ammo.

 

[Keith J]

Not my edict

But Kimber's. American Rifleman covered this when the Kimber in .223 was being tested. They found sticky extraction when 5.56 ammo was fired even though the chamber was above the minimums IAW SAAMI.

Why risk it? You can get .223 Remington in Q-type loads and there is usually no price differential when you consider the price per round (loads I'm thinking of are the light bullet Q loads).

In my 5.56 NATO (and its stamped on the barrel along with 1:7, CMP and FNMI) chambered rifle, the old 1999 Q3131 gives 3260-3290 at the muzzle and impresses the ejector on the brass. I would not fire this in any other rifle even though I have had zero problems.

Poodleshooter is correct. I have not the tools to measure pressure of Q3131 but I know its higher than WW-Super.

 

[Prof]

1911A1fan: Do a search for threads on this topic. It has been covered a lot already and the consensus seems to be what Keith J says: don't use milsurp 5.56 in .223 bolt action guns. Also, go over to the AR-15.com forum and do the same search. As has been noted, buy good factory .223 ammo. Why risk possible problems to save a few bucks?

 

[HankL]

All I can contribute here is: I was asked by a friend of a friend to shoot some small targets with 5.56 FMJ ammo. The targets were 1/4" x 1" and very labor intensive to make. I used my Remington 40XBR and WW Ball at 50 yds. 20 targets shot in 20 rounds. After seeing that the rifle would work pretty good with MILSPEC ammo I have used it as a plinker on occasion {so many times that I quit logging all of the rounds through it} It will still shoot 3/8" at 100 yds. with it's load which is about what it was doing before I started having lots of fun with it.

 

[700PSS Shooter]

I have shot a lot of M193 ball in my .223 PSS with varying results. IMI 62gr. works great for milsurp. I will NOT use the Wolf or generic stuff though.

That said, Black Hills 52 grain match is way, way better. For Coyotes at 200, the milsurp is OK if legal to use FMJ for hunting in your state.

 

[biganimal]

coyote wacking

I use reloads for hunting coyotes because surplus fmj blows clean thru and sometimes ya gotta go looking for the critter. I use barnes vlc bullets and the coyotes never get more than 5 feet from the spot the bullet hit em.