Suppressors and Hunters?

[Bogie]

Guys, would you be interested in (a) spending the money; and (b) jumping through the paperwork hoops; for a somewhat quieter hunting rifle? I've been considering getting together with a friend, and designing a -small- suppressor for centerfire rifles. It won't be a "complete" suppressor - just looking to "take the edge off" or maybe a bit more... While at the same time keeping the thing small enough to avoid the "big and clunky" bit.

All NFA rules apply, of course...

 

[Lawyer Daggit]

Suppressors

many years ago I had a can in a state where they were legal. Fitted to an also then legal Ruger 10/22 it was a fine fox whistiling rifle. After calling them in, there may be sufficient confusion about my location after shot one to enable me to clean up the second fox as well.

There were limiting factors- i would tend to use Winchester Hush Power ammo- this would occasionally smokestack in the action as the action would not have the power to work the action.

With practice I became quite skilled at angling the rifle and with the flick of the finger clearing the jam.

 

[kozak6]

No, I would not be interested in such a device.

In my state, it is unlawful to possess or use "contrivances designed to silence, muffle, or minimize the report of a firearm" while hunting.

 

[spctim11]

I would not be interested as humans we have enough advantages hunting animals as it is.

 

[schmellba99]

Be careful and do your research before you spend much time or money in this venture. The ATF considers anything that muffles or otherwise causes a weapon's report to be reduced a silencer. I do not know of a state that will let you legally hunt "game" animals with a supressor. Most states that allow supressors to be owned will allow you to hunt non-game animals with them, such as hogs, but not things like deer or other animals that have designated seasons.

 

[Bogie]

Uh, right... Why else do you think I was referring to the NFA?

And I'm not looking to be a "deer assassin." Just thinking that a little less noise on the hunter's end might be a bit easier on the hunter's ears... If you could take 25-30db off it, you'd still have noise, but hey...

 

[Doyle]

If you want a legal quiet deer killer, look at the .300 whisper. It is strictly a short range caliber (maybe 50 or so yards), but the subsonic bullet is much quieter than a standard hunting caliber.

 

[jfrey123]

If you could take 25-30db off it, you'd still have noise, but hey...

There's already a device to take 25-30db's off a gunshot: they're called ear plugs.

 

[lon371]

I am thinking a crossbow would be in order(where legal) but then again, I suppose if I could use a high power rifle I would not have to get to close.

 

[shaggy]

Bogie, if you're thinking of a 25-30db reduction, you're in full-blown centerfire rifle suppressor territory. The suppression will be a on the low end compared to the big names like Gem-Tech & AAC but you're still going to be in competition with them and every manufacturer of "complete" suppressors. I understand you think its smaller size may be a good selling point, but I really doubt most hunters will be willing to sacrifice suppression for size, given a similar price. No offense, but with the lower sound reduction I think your niche would become the low-end/budget suppressor buyer who is willing to sacrifice sound reduction for price. I own a number of suppressors and the first thing I look at when I buy is sound reduction. I think most guys will try to get the best sound reduction for their dollar, unless they have a very specialized need for a smaller unit. Just look at the market for handgun suppressors over the past few years. Sales of the smaller "wet" cans have gone way down in the past few years as people seem to prefer larger handgun cans with bigger tubes, better suppression, and Neilsen devices built in.

 

[Travis Beck]

Electronic earmuffs will compress the sound to a level that is safe for the shooter. I've also seen models that will amplify ambient sounds while still compressing loud ones. Last time I looked the latter was about $200.

 

[Csspecs]

I live by hunting woods part of the year..... Lets just say I think NOT using silencers is stupid. Why is it that I need to get up at sun up every morning if I'm not hunting? Some knuckle head ALWAYS has to use some HUGE STINKING MAGNUM RIFLE RIGHT AT SUN UP!!! WHY??

I like to sleep on days I'm not hunting.... I can't even imagine what non-hunters think.

I had an idea in the past to try for built in silencers to be de-regulated... Basically find a noise level that is still noticeable but a bit less irritating, like the same as a .22lr or .22 mag and set that as the lowest allowable level with factory loads and require them to be built into the barrel in such a way that they are not removable (like the baffles are welded to the barrel, but you can remove the sleeve for cleaning).

 

[Bogie]

Well, don't want to give much away, but we're looking at something that's integral to the barrel, and would have more of a "heavy" profile. Subsonic calibers are nice, and have their place, but basically just considering something around .30-06 or .308... Just thinking that it'd be nice to shoot at some food without the ringing ears bit (and yeah, I own earplugs (buy them by the case) and a good set of electronic muffs, but there ain't always time...).

 

[Beretta686]

Theres quite a few outfits making suppressed 44 mag rifles that pack quite a punch and are super-quiet if you use the 44 specials.

If you want a legal quiet deer killer, look at the .300 whisper. It is strictly a short range caliber (maybe 50 or so yards)

Actually the 300 whisper can reach out pretty far (300 meters +). The only prob is that it has a looping trajectory.

 

[KyJim]

While at work this past week, I ran across an article which may be of interest on this topic. The author basically argues that "silencers" are very seldom used for crime and that the penalties for unlawful use or possession are too harsh. It includes reports of prosecutions where the citizens were otherwise law abiding. For example, a father-son team built one more or less as a science project.

http://wcr.sonoma.edu/v08n2/44.clark/clark.pdf

 

[schmellba99]

Uh, right... Why else do you think I was referring to the NFA?

And I'm not looking to be a "deer assassin." Just thinking that a little less noise on the hunter's end might be a bit easier on the hunter's ears... If you could take 25-30db off it, you'd still have noise, but hey...

And the main point of my post is that anything NFA is not going to be legal for game hunting (deer being "game animals") in any state I can think of.

You would have to get laws changed, at the state and federal level, to be able to use any form of a supressor for game hunting. That means deer, elk, migratory bird, or any other form of hunting that involved "game" animals.

For non game animals, such as hog, havelina, and other varmint type animals, it is legal to use supression devices. I know several people in Texas that religously hunt hogs with suppressed AR's because it does make the hunt more enjoyable, and the suppressor also acts as a hell of a flash hider when hunting at night.

But my interpretation is that you are looking to design and implement a device that you don't consider a suppressor, but will still be considered a suppressor in Big Brother's eyes, to hunt deer - and that isn't happening unless you have a massive amount of political clout and have the ability to get state and federal laws changed.

If you do have that ability, you will be my hero. I am a huge fan of suppressors and would love to have considerably looser restrictions and laws on them personally.

 

[Bogie]

I doubt if anyone would go to jail for using a Game Getter... Of course, that's not suppressed...

Basically, I'm in Missouri, where suppressors are out unless you're a manufacturer... Hence, we've been looking for an excuse to build something... So we can HAVE something... for testing and demonstration purposes, of course...

 

[predator86]

suppressors or silencers, whatever you want to call them are REQUIRED for use in european countries, how about you check if it is legal with your state's dnr and if it is legal than get one!!! how hard was that?

 

[Zak Smith]

And the main point of my post is that anything NFA is not going to be legal for game hunting (deer being "game animals") in any state I can think of.

Legal in WI, and others. Legal in more places for varmints.

18 U.S.C. sec. 921(a)(24) "The term 'firearm silencer' or
'firearm muffler' means any device for silencing, muffling, or
diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any
combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for
use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm
muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or
fabrication."

To make these, a Type 7 FFL and a Class 2 SOT are starting points.

To reduce the report of a rifle without invoking 18 USC 921, I would recommend simply using a lower pressure cartridge and a long barrel.