suppressing a .223...?

[simonrichter]

I recently watched "Lone Survivor", an Afghanistan war movie. There were of course a lot of .223 rifles / carbines in action, some of them seemingly suppressed. I just wondered whether suppressing a .223 actually makes sense since you would still have the supersonic crack of the bullet. And even if you had, on the other hand, a subsonic round that would still be able to cycle the action, it would have hardly more punch than a .22lr given the bullet dimensions of .223.

Any expertise on this issue?

 

[Gbnk82]

I have heard it is generally better to go for a ar chambered in 300 blk if you want to suppress it...

 

[Polinese]

It still reduces the report. It's like the muffler on your car... doesn't make it silent but definitely makes it quieter than not having one.

 

[shrewd]

It still drastically reduces sound.

It won't be ninja quiet at close range, but back to the movie you watched;
If you have to shoot a few guys on a mountain top, it's much less likely to be heard by other dudes in the valley

For a sporting shooter like most of us it's not really worthwhile, unless you're a prepper or want it for the cool/fun factor

 

[Art Eatman]

A suppressor is a courtesy to the neighbors. Many people don't actually object to shooting so much as the noise from shooting.

A fair number of rural folks down here in south Georgia only have relatively small tracts of land. With a suppressed AR, they don't get phone calls griping, "Hey, you ruined my danged nap!"

 

[simonrichter]

...so the sonic boom of .223 isn't that loud compared to the muzzle blast?

 

[Art Eatman]

The "pop" of a bullet going by is audible, but not anywhere near "loud".

Was pistol shooting at a range one time. Located down in a valley. A buddy was shooting across it with a .50 BMG bolt action he'd built. Sorta hill top to hill top. I guess the bullets' path was maybe fifty feet above us. We'd hear a little "pop" when it went over. Sorta amusing, was all.

 

[Theohazard]

"...so the sonic boom of .223 isn't that loud compared to the muzzle blast?"

No, the crack alone sounds like a whip crack (because it's essentially the same noise); if the bullet is going right by you it's fairly loud, but nothing compared to the muzzle blast.

I love shooting my .223 AR-15 suppressed. It makes it quieter than an un-suppressed .22 pistol. Sure, there's still the supersonic "crack" of the bullet, but the overall sound is sort of like a nail gun. Outside, I don't use hearing protection unless I'm shooting it a lot.

It's a very common myth that you need to use subsonic ammo with a silencer, but it's simply not true. That said, if you want to be super-quiet and avoid the supersonic "crack" you should use subsonic ammo. The ballistics of subsonic .223 are terrible and it won't cycle the action, so almost nobody uses it. But 300 Blackout is a terrific subsonic silencer round, and it comes in both super- and subsonic form.

 

[ATCDoktor]

I hunt small game just about every weekend with a suppressed bolt action centerfire rifle using high velocity ammunition (17 Hornet or a 223) and the sonic crack of a projectile in flight isn't near as loud as some would have you believe.

In fact, to my ear, the sound of the bullet connecting with the animal is louder than the sonic crack (depending on distance to the animal and projectile speed).

If I had to compare the sonic crack to anything (sound wise) it would be an air hose being disconnected forma pnuematic tool (more of a loud hiss than a crack).

Here's a video of a couple of jackrabbits I shot with a suppressed 17 Hornet (you'll note that the second jack doesn't react to the sound of the rifle being fired, he reacts to the sound of the bullet impact on the first rabbit).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RME1NmPmEMo&feature=player_detailpage

ETA, here's a video of a rabbit taken at 200 yards with a suppressed 223:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu9jwHc9SDs&feature=player_detailpage

 

[Theohazard]

If I had to compare the sonic crack to anything (sound wise) it would be an air hose being disconnected forma pnuematic tool (more of a loud hiss than a crack).

The pneumatic sound you're describing is the gas escaping the silencer combined with the sonic crack of the bullet; it's not just the sound of the bullet itself.

By itself, the sonic crack of the bullet sounds just like a loud whip crack.

 

[JD0x0]

The sound of the sonic crack is NOTHING compared to the initial 'bang' of a rifle. Ontop of that a suppressor reduces recoil and eliminates muzzle flash.

Suppressors have tons of uses with supersonic bullets. The only drawback, is you don't have a completely silent gun. But IMO, unless you're sneaking into a base or compound or something, with hostages, where ZERO noise can be made, to give away your position then, supersonic bullets are the better way to go.

 

[AK103K]

I have an AAC M4-2000 suppressor I use on a couple of my .223 AR's. They claim 95-97% reduction in muzzle blast (which is really amazing when you look at the size of the can and the area that actually contains the baffles), and I pretty much believe their claims. I can shoot it from my car port, with no hearing protection, and it doesnt bother me at all. If I shoot a .22 LR from the same spot, I cant hear for a couple of days, and my ears ring at about twice that they normally do now.

There is no doubt, you can hear the round breaking the sound barrier as its going down range, but the sound can vary with distance and weather conditions. There is very little noise at the shooter, and placing where the shot came from would be difficult, and probably 180* off.

I shot a rabbit at about 50 yards last year from the car port, and heard a strange "pop" when the rabbit was hit. I thought the bullet went through, and hit something in the tree line behind it. When I got to the rabbit, I realized what the pop was. It was the rabbit "popping" from the impact. There was a softball sized hole on the impact side, and there was no other side. That side of the rabbit was spread out across the yard.

You dont normally get to hear the round impact, especially at closer ranges, with guns that arent suppressed.

 

[Mobuck]

To the OP: IT'S A MOVIE
While it may be made to "look and sound realistic", it's still a manufactured piece of Hollywood magic.
I've heard bullets go past. The thing is if there's no distinct muzzle blast, you don't know where they came FROM. This is important if you need to take cover or return fire. The lack of muzzle blast gives the shooter time to make several more shots before the target group figures out where he is. This why I don't see the need for subsonic bullets for most uses. Subsonic ammo turns the 223 into a weak 22lr.

 

[simonrichter]

To the OP: IT'S A MOVIE

I'm well aware of that - said movie just provided the impetus for my question, I never asked whether the sound design of the movie was correct since this is something intrinsically impossible...

 

[waveslayer]

I recently watched "Lone Survivor", an Afghanistan war movie. There were of course a lot of .223 rifles / carbines in action, some of them seemingly suppressed. I just wondered whether suppressing a .223 actually makes sense since you would still have the supersonic crack of the bullet. And even if you had, on the other hand, a subsonic round that would still be able to cycle the action, it would have hardly more punch than a .22lr given the bullet dimensions of .223.

Any expertise on this issue?

When shooting at some distance they will not hear the rifle going off. It reduces their signature as well.

 

[Colt46]

Hollywood has provided our current perception of suppressors

Because of this, supressors will always be associated with criminal behavior or special operations.

 

[B.L.E.]

and placing where the shot came from would be difficult, and probably 180* off.

That makes sense, since the sound the bullet makes when it's near you reaches you before the sound it made while still far away, it sounds like the bullet is going away from you towards the shooter.

Lightning bolts sound like that too. A thin mile long explosion from the cloud to ground, you hear the explosion made near you before you hear the explosion near the cloud and it makes that familiar "shooting noise".
Det cord probably sounds like that also.