Strike Two for Bersa Thunder

dakota.potts

New member
If you remember my last thread, my girlfriend got a Bersa Thunder .380 for a carry gun for Christmas and it was intended to be her CCW. It had an issue where the safety started out stiff, got stiffer, and then became impossible to dis-engage, leaving the gun on safe with no resolution.

Being that I'm a member of a gunsmithing school, I took it in to have this fixed. Was this a mistake? Maybe. The gun was given back to me a couple of weeks later, where I was told the issue was some part of the safety mechanism had slipped out of its proper orientation and was locking the whole thing up. Safety felt a little stiff but I figure that's just because it's a new factory gun with relatively few rounds through it and some things will still be stiff.

This past weekend we took it to the range and had a brand new issue. The gun will fire fine for 3 or 4 rounds and then suddenly click instead of bang. Each time this happened, the gun was held pointed down range for 30 seconds in case of a hang fire and then the trigger pulled at least 5 times in double action. These rounds would refuse to go off. When ejected, the primers were not dented and some had slight scratches. These rounds, put back into a magazine, would sometimes fire, but every magazine would have one of these failures after 3 or 4 rounds.

We managed to stumble through almost a whole box of Winchester White Box before switching to Sellier & Bellot, which had the same issue.

I know a lot of people here love the Bersa and many have stories of thousands of rounds gone without an issue. At this point, the damage is done for us and we are looking at other options. We're considering now the Glock 42/43, S&W shield, and Ruger LCR in .38 special. I know that many of these guns have been good examples, I know that not having work done by an authorized gun dealer was a mistake, and I know that many people will say to send the pistol back or have it re-serviced and try again. For me, the issues are there and neither of us feel like trusting a defensive handgun after this kind of issue. There were some things I grew to not be too crazy about on the Bersa ergonomically (in spite of the decent trigger) so we will just chalk it up to experience and try something new. I don't really have a point or want to say anything bad about the company in particular (though I do dislike their system of using unaffiliated gunsmiths as authorized service centers) so much as to say this has been our experience even if others would recommend taking different steps. That's why there is variety on the market.
 

michael t

New member
Sorry your having problems . Have lots of happy owners on Bersachat Mine oldest Thunder is 13 years now and never been a problem.
 

tallball

New member
LCR. It is not a range gun. It is an Aim Squeeze Bang carry gun. You shoot it every once in a while for practice, and other guns for fun. Your chance of mechanical difficulty is infinitesimally small. If there is a dud round you just squeeze the trigger again. It is extremely light and easy to carry.
 

jglsprings

New member
Huh, kind of strange attitude for someone who is going to be a gunsmith.

You seem to be missing the "let's figure this out" attitude I would expect.

If you are going to dump everything that disappoints you that isn't supposed to, I'm expecting your girl friend to be on her way out next.

If you were someone who isn't studying the are of understanding mechanics I may be more sympathetic.

If you don't like it because of design fit, ergonomics, etc. go ahead, get a Glock - It was my first choice. I look at guns with mechanical problems as troubled children, can't give up on them.
 

Walt Sherrill

New member
jglsprings said:
Huh, kind of strange attitude for someone who is going to be a gunsmith.

You seem to be missing the "let's figure this out" attitude I would expect.

You're a little harsh?

He didn't say he was a STUDENT at the school, or a gunsmith. Maybe he just works there. I suspect that even gunsmith schools have folks who work in the office or elsewhere at the school, doing other things than teach or take instruction.

Maybe he was just enjoying one of the benefits of working there -- free weapon services.

A surprising number of folks on this forum (and other forums) advocate throwing away magazines that don't work right... and immediately trade away or sell guns that don't work right -- without figuring out what's wrong. Stuff happens, and not everybody is MacGyver.
 

dakota.potts

New member
I have plenty of guns that I bought entirely with the intention of figuring it out. I'm rebuilding a torch cut Spanish CETME full auto battle rifle into something semi automatic with a number of mechanical alterations to make it legal requiring machining, welding and custom fitting. Next on the list is a CZ 26 submachine gun that was once open bolt and needs a bolt modification, whole new receiver, and an entirely fabricated striker based trigger group. I accept these guns for what they are and am willing to work on them understanding the potential for failures and issues and the rewards of getting it right.

For a defensive carry gun for somebody very close to me who doesn't understand the firearms the way that I do, has not yet grown attached to a particular weapons platform, and needs something that works reliably every single time I'm not willing to take that risk. I am studying the function, yes, but that still makes me at best a learned novice and far from a professional currently. I could attempt to take it apart and fix it myself, but given the multitude of issues presented to me by the current platform, I see no reason to keep giving it chances or to chance my own fixes when I know there are plenty of more reliable systems that I can count on as they come from the factory and have better customer service if there is an issue.

It's a strange judgement to make on somebody you've never met and with whom your window into their life extends only to interactions about guns, but I suppose some people feel compelled to judge publicly as they will.
 

dakota.potts

New member
He didn't say he was a STUDENT at the school, or a gunsmith. Maybe he just works there. I suspect that even gunsmith schools have folks who work in the office or elsewhere at the school, doing other things than teach or take instruction.

Walt, I am a student there currently and had it serviced by some upper year students. I am doing stock work the rest of this year and won't be doing repair work until early next year. It says that in my signature so it wasn't unreasonable to assume that I was a student there. What I take umbrage with is the oddly personal way the opinion was delivered and the line about involvement in my personal relationships is over boundaries to put it mildly. I simply don't want to be having to do this kind of work on a defensive carry gun at this point with my skill levels. Were it for collecting, target shooting, maybe even hunting I would look at it differently. For a gun for personal protection for a loved one, it just crosses my current comfort level. Not sure why that should cause the response received other than a feeling of personal superiority.

I appreciate the feedback on the LCR, we'll have to go shooting a bunch of guns to try and narrow down another semi automatic (higher capacity, easier reloads) versus a revolver (simplicity) and also see which guns are comfortable to shoot. Some of the super compact .380s (Bodyguard and LCP for instance) have been uncomfortable but manageable and I'm curious to see how the small revolvers feel with .38 rounds up to +P for self defense.

Off topic, some of us from the class are talking about taking a trip up to Winston-Salem to see if we can watch some of the old style gun makers work.
 

lamarw

New member
I can personally appreciate the OP's feelings. I have gone through it before with a particular pistol. It just so happens it was a Bersa Thunder .380. I will not bore others with the details. Lets just say it was within the first 20 rounds of a NIB example. It was sent in for warranty repair and only a few rounds down range afterwards to ensure it was fixed.

I seldom sell anything especially if it of any effort to do so. So, mine is stuck away for others to someday deal with it. I have plenty of other firearms to enjoy.

I would suggest the girlfriend check out an SCCY. I have read it is a little big in the grip for some with smaller palms. It does have a much better warranty than Bersa and is made in the USA. SCCY does have a new model in .380 on the market, but I have not seen or handled one.
 

Walt Sherrill

New member
Off topic, some of us from the class are talking about taking a trip up to Winston-Salem to see if we can watch some of the old style gun makers work.

Old Salem (here in W-S) has a bunch of great craftsmen and craftswomen! And it's an actual living neighborhood, where folks live in period correct houses (at least on the outside!!). Inside some of the homes are a good bit more modern. Cobblestone streets, etc.

Be sure to stop by the bakery when you're there visiting the gunsmith's shop. And if your schedule allows it, visit Salem Tavern, a great restaurant for lunch or supper. There are also some great gift shops for gifts for family members who don't make the trip -- and some of the prices are remarkably low.

Old Salem is sort of like Colonial Williamsburg on a smaller scale, but every bit as interesting. The Museum of Southern Decorative Arts [MESDA] is especially good -- with the actual rooms (walls, floors, fireplaces, and fixtures, pottery, textiles, furniture, etc.) of dwellings from different historical periods reassembled in the Museum, starting with a one-room cabin moving forward in time up to around the Civil War (known around here as The War of Northern Aggression [ :) ]). The guides really know their stuff. Amazing!

You'll be amazed at the work the gunsmith does. The last time I was there, one was building a barrel for a long gun.
 

Prof Young

New member
Knowing when you have a lemon . . .

Shooters:
i've had my share of guns i chose of lose due to bad performance. The first was a Beretta Nano followed by a Walter PK 380. In both of those instances I didn't do as much research as I should have before the purchase but was able to find a good number of bad reviews after I got serious about the research. Both those guns had FTF and FTE at a far higher rate than one would want for a CC gun. My point is that if you have a poorly performing gun and there are a good deal of bad reviews on the net then losing the gun may well be the right choice.

In the case of the OP I would very frustrated too. Sounds like his Bersa is a true lemon. Given that it's hard to find a bad review of a Bersa I think he really does have a lemon and needs to send it back in for service or let a good gunsmith have a chat with it.

I had a hi-point 9mm that stove piped constantly. Found a lot of on line stuff that said while cheaply made they were usually sound guns. Had it serviced via the life time warranty and the gun ran fine after that. Kept that one for a while until I traded up.

Anyway, inspite of a good reputation for Bersa, were I the OP, I'd be hesitant to pursue Bersa too.

Just saying . . . .

Live well, be safe
Prof Young
 

TailGator

New member
Of those who advocate fixing this gun rather than moving on, I ask, how many rounds would you put through this gun, after a couple of failures, before you honestly trusted your life to it?

My own answer would be a pretty large number, and until I had the time to put a good pile of ammo through it, I would, if that was my only pistol, not have a gun I trusted to carry. Getting something else, whether to fill in for a while or as a permanent replacement, seems like a downright reasonable solution, even if this particular pistol is repaired.
 

qwiksdraw

New member
Of those who advocate fixing this gun rather than moving on, I ask, how many rounds would you put through this gun, after a couple of failures, before you honestly trusted your life to it? .....

Breaking in a gun is as much about the owner as it is the pistol. In general, I will shoot at least 500 rounds to decide if I am comfortable with the gun for defense, then put in another 500 rounds to see if the gun's performance is reliable.

Unlike some, I do not consider owner errors against the gun's performance. As for magazine failures, if a magazine fails but not others, those faulty mags get replaced. If replacing faulty mags doesn't solve the problem, then I will not use the gun for defensive use.

Hope you found this helpful.
 

TailGator

New member
I don't think we have a disagreement, actually, but the above post is a bit puzzling in the context of the OP.

Breaking in a gun is as much about the owner as it is the pistol.

They are not breaking in the pistol. They have a pistol that has failed mechanically, twice in less than a year, and they have lost trust in it.

Unlike some, I do not consider owner errors against the gun's performance.

The first failure involved a safety that would not operate, and the second is apparently due to light or absent primer strikes. I have a hard time calling those operator errors.

If replacing faulty mags doesn't solve the problem, then I will not use the gun for defensive use.

The OP said that the problem was consistent with different mags. They reached the same conclusion that you did - not using it for defensive purposes - but at least one contributor criticized them for replacing it rather than repairing it.

It sounds like you agree with them, and with me, but took another route to reach your conclusion. All is good.
 

zincwarrior

New member
If you lose confidence in your CC, you should of course replace it immediately. A CC piece must be utterly, completely reliable, all the time, every time.
 

K_Mac

New member
The gun failed under warranty immediately out of the box. Frustrating sure, but certainly not a deal breaker. Instead of contacting the manufacturer to make it right, taking it in to be worked on at the school is where things went really wrong in my opinion. A conversation with Bersa would likely have resulted in a return arraignment and a working pistol.

Every manufacturer has this happen on occasion. What happens then is what separates the good from the rest. Bersa wasn't given the chance to make this right, and cannot be blamed for anything but sending out a less than perfect pistol. If this was a death sentence, there wouldn't be a gun manufacturer in business.

For the record, I don't own a Bersa and likely will not. Not for any reason other than too many guns on my wish list to be tempted unless a really good deal comes along.:D
 

dakota.potts

New member
I do own my fault for not sending it to an authorized repair person (though I really dislike having to send it to individual repair people whose affiliation with Bersa is unclear) and like I said I don't post this seeking to tarnish the reputation of Bersa or eagle imports in general. At this point, whether or not it could be fixed, we have lost our trust in it as a defensive firearm platform and will be looking into other choices.

I wouldn't tell anybody that their choice to go with Bersa is wrong, only to opine that we will be looking elsewhere. It may very well be cognitive bias, but a certain amount of trust has to go into your defensive handgun.
 

K_Mac

New member
I wouldn't tell anybody that their choice to go with Bersa is wrong, only to opine that we will be looking elsewhere. It may very well be cognitive bias, but a certain amount of trust has to go into your defensive handgun.

Well said. Good luck in your search.
 

qwiksdraw

New member
Tailgator: I don't think we have a disagreement, actually, but the above post is a bit puzzling in the context of the OP...

Didn't mean to be confusing. Read my reply again and you will see a quote from the previous comment, not to the OP, to whom I addressed his question.

My intent was for him and anyone else interested to consider the "process" I use in evaluating a gun, especially if it's new. After a repair I won't shoot as many rounds, but I will make sure the fix is good. This process works well for me,maybe it would work well for others too.

So I hope this clears this for you.
 
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