Sterile FN Highpower?
- Thread starter Kingcreek
- Start date
In 1968 while passing through Nha Trang, I bought a HP and a Carl Gustav from an SF NCO. The HP has the bright blue finish and blond wood stocks that one expects to see on BHPs. However the gun was an FN and did indeed have a serial number. Sorry that I have traded it away decades ago. The Carl Gustav, also known as a Swedish K, had a green painted finish. Sure wish I could have brought it home, but I sold it to another Cav trooper in An Khe.
In passing I should make it clear that because the HP was purchased from a certain individual does not imply that the gun was used by them or any other agency. It was a time and place when lots of firearms were floating aroung and could be puchased or bartered. A good guess is that many thousands of privately purchased handguns were taken to Viet Nam by GI's and very few taken back. However, we do know now that a lot of HP's were purchased and used in nonattributable situations. Was mine one of these? Who knows, the guy I bought it from might have won it in a card game from an Australian adivsor the night before. The Aussies and Kiwis carried the HP as an issued piece. The Aussie issue piece has a bright blue finish and dark wood stocks. I safekept one for an Aussie Captian who spent two weeks with one of our line companies. He hated the gun because the finish was so hard to keep free of rust.
It would seem to me that an unnumbered firearm would attract more attention that one with a serial number. FN will sell lots of HPs with any range of serial numbers that the purchasing agency/country wants. And they are known for their discretion.
I saw one yesterday at a show that was made for the Austrian police in 1948 that was in the same range as an FN that I once had with the Nazi eagles on it probably made in 42 or 43. However, I am a plinker and packrat, not a serious collector. The best resource that I know of is www.fnhipower.com and Stephen Camp who posts on this board from time to time.
Jay
In passing I should make it clear that because the HP was purchased from a certain individual does not imply that the gun was used by them or any other agency. It was a time and place when lots of firearms were floating aroung and could be puchased or bartered. A good guess is that many thousands of privately purchased handguns were taken to Viet Nam by GI's and very few taken back. However, we do know now that a lot of HP's were purchased and used in nonattributable situations. Was mine one of these? Who knows, the guy I bought it from might have won it in a card game from an Australian adivsor the night before. The Aussies and Kiwis carried the HP as an issued piece. The Aussie issue piece has a bright blue finish and dark wood stocks. I safekept one for an Aussie Captian who spent two weeks with one of our line companies. He hated the gun because the finish was so hard to keep free of rust.
It would seem to me that an unnumbered firearm would attract more attention that one with a serial number. FN will sell lots of HPs with any range of serial numbers that the purchasing agency/country wants. And they are known for their discretion.
I saw one yesterday at a show that was made for the Austrian police in 1948 that was in the same range as an FN that I once had with the Nazi eagles on it probably made in 42 or 43. However, I am a plinker and packrat, not a serious collector. The best resource that I know of is www.fnhipower.com and Stephen Camp who posts on this board from time to time.
Jay
Stephen A. Camp
Staff In Memoriam
Hello. I have no information on the sterile FN HP that you mentioned seeing. Not having been in Viet Nam I can only say that fellows who were told me that most of the guns they saw were straight military issue.
Do drop by www.fnhipower.com and ask this question. There are some guys there really up on HP history and they might very well have the answers you seek.
Wish I could help, but I just shoot 'em.
Best.
Do drop by www.fnhipower.com and ask this question. There are some guys there really up on HP history and they might very well have the answers you seek.
Wish I could help, but I just shoot 'em.
Best.
Hi, guys,
In my admitedly limited experience, an unmarked "sanitized gun" made for "a secret agency" is simply one that some idiot buffed the he*l out of and then realized he had removed the markings. So off to the Parkerizing tank and lo and behold, a "special secret gun issued to secret XYZ agents."
Of course, removing markings and serial numbers is a violation of the law, but a "super secret" gun never had them, did it? And it should be worth big bucks, of course. Very rare!
There was a report that Francis Gary Powers' High Standard was sanitized. It wasn't, and what would have been the point? Who would the Russians think might send an American, in an American plane, over their country? Bangladesh, maybe?
Jim
In my admitedly limited experience, an unmarked "sanitized gun" made for "a secret agency" is simply one that some idiot buffed the he*l out of and then realized he had removed the markings. So off to the Parkerizing tank and lo and behold, a "special secret gun issued to secret XYZ agents."
Of course, removing markings and serial numbers is a violation of the law, but a "super secret" gun never had them, did it? And it should be worth big bucks, of course. Very rare!
There was a report that Francis Gary Powers' High Standard was sanitized. It wasn't, and what would have been the point? Who would the Russians think might send an American, in an American plane, over their country? Bangladesh, maybe?
Jim
My local gunshop has a Sanitized Remington 700 PSS..not for sale ofcource. The only marking is the caliber stamp on the base of the barrel. Acording to them, some local agency buys sterile guns every once and a while, not really sure why and they wouldnt give out the particulars. My guess is they know what they are talking about and the agency is one with some pretty deep pockets judging my the collection of FN P90's, 49's and HK G3's waiting to be picked up by the same agency. I really have a hard time seeing the need for a sanitized gun, especialy in a local environment. In an international situation, you might not want your neighbors knowing who keep sending those covert ops into their backyard. The only posible reason I could see for a local operation to need untraceable guns is on the remote posiblity that a UC lets a bad guy look at his gun or a bust goes deep 6 . It wouldnt be hard for a computer savy goblin to trace the gun back to a department, exposing the UC or opening the department up for retaliation. Kinda far fetched, but its really the only reason I could come up with. Would be nice to have than un traceable P90 PDW w/ suppressor though.
I realize how lame this might sound, but I'm reluctant to post alot of additional details here. I can get along just fine without G-men knocking on my door.
The individual that had (and probably still has) this FN IS international with some sketchy but interesting history of service with his native government. I have absolutly no reason to think he is any threat to the US, if anything quite the opposite.
I'm not some youngster with an active imagination and nothing better to do. A recent conversation about 'sterile' guns led me to make this post. Hope my vagueness isn't interpreted as BS.
The individual that had (and probably still has) this FN IS international with some sketchy but interesting history of service with his native government. I have absolutly no reason to think he is any threat to the US, if anything quite the opposite.
I'm not some youngster with an active imagination and nothing better to do. A recent conversation about 'sterile' guns led me to make this post. Hope my vagueness isn't interpreted as BS.
Kingcreek,
No your story is not lame or B.S., but an interesting topic to post. and it has generated some good comments. Thank you for stimulating our grey matter.
Being "sterile" has many connotations. They range from not wanting a casual observer to know whether a combat infantryman is from the 8th Infantry Division or the 3d Armored
Division all the way up to a "plausable deniability", that so-and-so is not a citizen, agent or operative of this country and is not working on behalf of this country. Plausable deniablitity usually winds up being a political charade and is practiced rigorously at the pointed end of the spear but is joked about at the top. For example, the cross border operations run in viet nam by MACV employed troops who mostly had a special forces background. When they went "over the fence" they were still large hairy americans carrying american equipment except for the most casual of personal items, (cameras, pocketknives, handguns, compasses, etc). They were still carrying CAR-15's, M-26 frags and being delivered by american made helicopters and being supported by the u.s. air force. But when they went on a cross border mission, they were rigorous is leaving behind any incriminating personal items. There was no attempt to fool the north vietnamese into thinking they were fighting canadian or finnish peace keeping forces. Rather there was wiggle room at the negotiating table at the peace talks to deny that these were in fact americans.
Being a bartender for years, I cant tell you how many CIA agents and MAC-SOG commandos I've encountered and how many implausabe BS war stories I've heard. I oughtta write a book someday. It got to the point where I took down the flag, the case with some BS service medals in it, and the pictures of my tired and dirty mates out in the bush These items inspired far too many war strories.
I have always been a believer in Occam's Razor. That is, the shortest and least complicated story that fits the facts is usually the truest. My money is on this gun being butchered by an amateur gun plumber. Having said that, a good story should be judged more on how good the story is rather than how true it is.
Jay
No your story is not lame or B.S., but an interesting topic to post. and it has generated some good comments. Thank you for stimulating our grey matter.
Being "sterile" has many connotations. They range from not wanting a casual observer to know whether a combat infantryman is from the 8th Infantry Division or the 3d Armored
Division all the way up to a "plausable deniability", that so-and-so is not a citizen, agent or operative of this country and is not working on behalf of this country. Plausable deniablitity usually winds up being a political charade and is practiced rigorously at the pointed end of the spear but is joked about at the top. For example, the cross border operations run in viet nam by MACV employed troops who mostly had a special forces background. When they went "over the fence" they were still large hairy americans carrying american equipment except for the most casual of personal items, (cameras, pocketknives, handguns, compasses, etc). They were still carrying CAR-15's, M-26 frags and being delivered by american made helicopters and being supported by the u.s. air force. But when they went on a cross border mission, they were rigorous is leaving behind any incriminating personal items. There was no attempt to fool the north vietnamese into thinking they were fighting canadian or finnish peace keeping forces. Rather there was wiggle room at the negotiating table at the peace talks to deny that these were in fact americans.
Being a bartender for years, I cant tell you how many CIA agents and MAC-SOG commandos I've encountered and how many implausabe BS war stories I've heard. I oughtta write a book someday. It got to the point where I took down the flag, the case with some BS service medals in it, and the pictures of my tired and dirty mates out in the bush These items inspired far too many war strories.
I have always been a believer in Occam's Razor. That is, the shortest and least complicated story that fits the facts is usually the truest. My money is on this gun being butchered by an amateur gun plumber. Having said that, a good story should be judged more on how good the story is rather than how true it is.
Jay