Stars and Stripes Article: Some MEUs still carry proven .45

Nightcrawler

New member
Some MEUs still carry proven .45s

By Mark Oliva, Stars and Stripes
Pacific edition, Monday, August 5, 2002



CAMP HANSEN, Okinawa — Not everyone in the U.S. military carries Beretta’s M-9 9 mm handgun. A small group of Marines still carry .45-caliber pistols — but they’re a far cry from Grandpa’s World War II gun.

Marine Corps officials keep about 500 .45-caliber pistols, based on the Colt M-1911A1 frame. They’re called MEU (SOC) .45s, specially designed for applications within the Marine Expeditionary Unit’s Special Operations Capable missions.

They’re issued to Force Reconnaissance Marines as secondary weapons to submachine guns for their role as the Maritime Special Purpose Force. This gun shoots up close and personal.

Marine Capt. Jeffrey Stower, project officer for the MEU (SOC) .45 at Marine Corps Systems Command in Quantico, Va., said the .45 is essential to Marines’ direct-action missions as a secondary weapon. It’s so important, in fact, that the Marine Corps plans to upgrade the weapon.

The Corps now builds its own specialized version of the .45-caliber pistol from existing M-1911A1 frames still in inventory.

Armorers at the Marine Corps Weapons Training Battalion in Quantico refit the guns. They install new slides, barrels and internal components to what is called “near match” or “combat accuratized” specifications. Each weapon costs about $600 and is good for 30,000 shots before it needs to be refitted.

The planned improvements won’t affect the .45’s appearance or make it shoot faster or more smoothly. But they should make it more durable.

Stower said the Marine Corps wants to put in “hardened, drop-in parts, which would enhance the reliability and endurance of the weapon, as well as lower the echelon of maintenance.”

“The two biggest reasons we carry the .45 pistol,” said Marine Maj. Tracy Tafolla, “is a single-action loader is a little faster for the Marines to use when conducting close-quarters battle.”

“We get faster, stronger and more accurate shots that we just wouldn’t get with a double-action pistol,” said Tafolla, head of the Special Missions branch, III3rd Marine Expeditionary Force Special Operations Training Group. That means Marines can get off a first round faster, smoother and more accurately.

“Another reason we use the MEU (SOC) .45 is because of its ability to incapacitate a hostile person with one round,” Tafolla said. “We’re much more likely to do that with a .45 than with a 9 mm.”

Tafolla said the M-9 9 mm is a good weapon with good attributes. He said the safety of double-action triggers, high-capacity 15-round magazines and the fact it’s the same round used by other NATO allies makes it a natural fit for standard issue. He labeled the M-9 as a “good personal self-defense weapon.”

In fact, the same Marines who carry the beefy .45s also carry MP-5 submachine guns that shoot 9 mm rounds. But when firing those submachine guns, they shoot “double-taps,” or two squeezes on the trigger, to ensure an enemy soldier is hit with a massive amount of lead. Special Operations Training Group instructors teach a single shot to the head for the .45.

The MEU (SOC) .45 also is better able to survive harsh battlefield environments, Tafolla said. It can fire in dirtier conditions that would gum up the M-9; its heavier frame can take more abuse.

“Look at how many decades we’ve been using the .45,” the major said. “It’s a proven weapon.”

Tafolla said Marines using the specialized .45-caliber pistols expect to be fighting within steps of their enemy, “with very little stand-off room.” The time needed to get off a second shot can be the difference between life and death.

“They need a weapon that will be able to put somebody down now,” Tafolla said. “It all comes back to the energy you deliver to the target. Although the 9 mm is faster, the .45 is able to deliver more energy and achieve greater penetration. That’s what you have to have.”

Article found here.
 

VVG

New member
I've been reading "The Eyes of Orion" about five Armor LT's in the gulf war - they were still carrying .45's, in the tanker holsters. At least he and the Platoon Sergeant had them. I've seen Reserve and NG MP's at airports with them, as well.
 

VVG

New member
Think about that for a moment.
Think about this - John Browning's true masterpiece, the M2 .50 cal machine gun, is still in frontline use by all U.S. services!

My introduction to the M2 was at Fort Benning in 1981. The instructor noted that some considered the .50 cal obsolete (compared to the 20 and 25 mm chain guns) but, "If you set an M2 down in the middle of a city block in any city on the planet, you won't see anything the .50 cal won't go through." Here as a sniper....

firearms_mg_m2_03.jpg
 

DMK

New member
They install new slides, barrels and internal components to what is called “near match” or “combat accuratized” specifications. Each weapon costs about $600

I wonder what kind of parts they are using. Reading between the lines, this looks like a job done in the back room of the armory using off the shelf commercial parts.

The 1911 is a cool piece of equipment. It's kind of like the M2, the B-52 and UPS trucks. If you keep rebuilding them, they'll get the job done for a very long time, and there isn't anything on the horizon that does the job better.
 

SixGunner

New member
DMK,

Check for a thread similar to this on www.1911forum.com. dsk (I think) posted a list of all the parts used in these guns. I know that they use [EDIT] Bar-Sto barrels, King's gun works bushings and either Caspian or Springfield slides. Mags are Wilson 47Ds, grips appear to be made by Pachmayr and the frames are USGI. I think they also use Wilson extractors.
 
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Redlg155

New member
In fact, the same Marines who carry the beefy .45s also carry MP-5 submachine guns that shoot 9 mm rounds. But when firing those submachine guns, they shoot “double-taps,” or two squeezes on the trigger, to ensure an enemy soldier is hit with a massive amount of lead.

Of course they have to double tap. Everyone knows that 115 x 2= 230!:D

Am I surprised that they have the .45? Nope. Makes sense. Am I surprised that they didn't go with the HK platform? Yes. Either way the 1911 is a perfectly serviceable warhorse and will always be.

Good Shooting
RED
 

SixGunner

New member
I think the Marines are using the 1911 because the H&K they have (the SOCOM) is too big for use as a backup weapon (have you seen one? It's HUGE!). Since the 1911 has the grip safety, they may feel that it is safer to carry C&L. With all the 1911s in the US inventory using them is a way to reduce costs without affecting the quality of the issued weapon. Also the article makes mention of the steel frame of the 1911.

In any case you're right Redlg155, 91 years and no one has come up with anything that IMHO is any better. As good? Maybe but no better.

MAN I'd love to get ahold of one of those MEU .45s! I'll bet they are SWEET!
 

buzz_knox

New member
Iron Brigade Armory employs many of the same Marine armorers who built the MEU(SOC) and is making production MEU(SOC) 1911s available to the public. In fact, one is for sale on this board, if I'm not mistaken.
 

Mustang6

New member
"The inventory of parts reads like a who's who of the 1911 aftermarket business. In fact, the list is so diverse that it appers as if the Marines flipped through the Brownells catalog and took one of everything. They started with 789 barrels, bushings and link pins from Nowlins Manufacturing as well as 789 sear springs, ejectors, firing pin stops mainspring housings and mainsprings. From Springfield Armory the leathernecks bought 789 slides and a corresponding number of hammers, sears and disconnectors from Cylinder and Slide Shop.
"Ed Brown Products got the nod for 789 beavertails and recoil spring guides while Novak's .45 Shop received an order for 789 rear sights. Wilson Combat is providing 789 extractors and mag release buttons and King's Gun Works is selling 789 ambi thumb safeties.
"it is unknow what brand of frame the Marines are building the guns on. The Marines stated that the parts they chose are the best "after extensive market research and field testing."

Semper Fi
TM
 

SixGunner

New member
"it is unknow what brand of frame the Marines are building the guns on. The Marines stated that the parts they chose are the best "after extensive market research and field testing."

The original 500 were done using leftover USGI frames (probably Colt, Remington-Rand, Ithaca, Union Switch and Signal, Springfield Armory, etc.) I'd guess this is how the next 789 will be made as well, unless the Army is running out of suitable frames. If they are new frames, I'd bet Springfield Armory and Caspian are both in the running.
 
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