springing 9mm and 38 super 1911s

R

rc

New member
So what do you think are the best spring combinations for kimber and springflied 9mm and 38 super 1911s? Kimber doesn't have to deal with as heavy a mainspring due to the passive firing pin block like springfield. Springfield is running a super heavy mainspring to make up for the light titanium pin. In the shorter commander and 4 inch kimbers the slides are lighter. Does anyone have recommendations on mainspring and recoil spring combinations in 4 and 5 inch guns? I'm interested in a switch barrel combo that uses the same spring.

I was wondering if I could change out my springfield 9 pound recoil spring with a 13 pound flat spring and still have the gun function with the factory mainspring an standard 9mm ammo?
 
A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
You're running 9 pound recoil spring? With full-power 9mm and .38 Super ammunition?

Colt wrote the book on the 1911. The standard recoil spring for a 5" 1911 in 9mm or .38 Super is 14 pounds. In a 4-1/3" Commander it's 16 pounds.

Wolff Gunsprings recommends a 14 pound recoil spring for the 4" Kimber in 9mm, but they don't have a listing for .38 Super in the Compact. Based on the fact that typically recoil spring weight goes up as the slide gets shoter, if you want to have a 4" pistol that runs the same spring for both 9mm and .38 Super, I would try a 16-pound recoil spring, but I would be prepared to move either down to 14 pounds or up to 18 pounds for fine tuning.
 
R

RickB

New member
I run an 11# recoil spring and 23# main in my 5" Colt, with 124-130 @ 1000-1050fps loads.
For full power Super, I'd add a couple of pounds.
 
J

Jim Watson

New member
There is a lot of overlap between 9mm P and .38 Super. Some .38 is no hotter than standard 9mm, and book standard .38 is not much different from 9mm +P. I'd start with the Wolff 14 lb and work DOWN for function and flip. No need for separate springs unless you are shooting a lot of utter maximum .38s.
 
A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
Keep in mind that the real function of the "recoil" spring isn't to absorb recoil, it's to return the slide to battery. IIRC, Browning referred to it as the "action" spring in his patent documents. You should not have to run an extra light recoil spring in a Springfield because of the heavy hammer spring. If you do have to do that, I would look at reducing the weight of the hammer spring as much as possible (while still being sure you get reliable ignition, of course). Many people report that a standard 23-pound hammer spring works fine with the Springfield titanium firing pin.
 
R

rc

New member
Well I'm a bit flustered. I installed wilson disconnect, sear and hammer strut and a remington mainspring housing without lock in my springfield 9mm target. It's not ejecting casings reliably due to resistance of the action springs. I tried a 7 pound spring I had but it won't go into battery so it is a delicate balance. I was having light strikes but cleaned the firing pin channel and all ammo that chambered went boom. I changed out the recoil assembly to GI style so I don't know how much that affects the action. I would like a suggestion of a mainspring weight to go with springfield 9 pound or 10 recoil spring for general 9mm use.. I've got a kimber Target II and it wasn't ejecting the IZQ ammo I was shooting either. Tried some other ammo and it's still lackluster with unreliable ejection. This gun is going to be a dual caliber platform with 9mm and 38 super barrels. I tried a few different spring weights in the kimber with 9mm but like the springfield it was having problems either chambering or ejecting depending on the spring installed. Too soft and it's sluggish to chamber, too firm and I have a single shot. The 9mm barrel is new and may need to have the chamber polished out to help it break in. I also have a 38 super barrel for it. I might like to reduce the hammer spring a bit on the kimber also to help it with standard 9mm ammo reliability.

Is there much difference in reliability with flat vs round springs? I'm sure with the right spring combinations and a little polishing I'll be OK.
 
A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
As has already been stated, for general purpose (standard power) 9mm ammo in a 5-inch 1911, the standard recoil spring is 14 pounds, and the standard main (hammer) spring is 23 pounds. If you put a 23-pound hammer spring in the gun and it won't eject with a 14-pound recoil spring and standard power ammo, something is binding up your pistol.

Are both of your pistols 5-inch guns, or is one of them shorter?
 
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R

rc

New member
I think the new disconnect was a little tight and the frame rails and chamber were still rough in the springfield. I used some red rouge and oil on the frame rails today and ran the slide a bunch of times by hand without the barrel installed. I worked the disconnect up and down in the hole to wear it in too and put a little more bevel at the bottom of the breach face so it doesn't hang up which was an issue too. I don't think I've fired my springfield 500 times. Hoping it will cycle properly now. The kimber has 2 sig replacement barrels that are breaking in so I polished the chambers out. Will see how it runs in 9 and 38 soon.
 
R

rock185

New member
rc, I've owned my share of full sized 1911 type pistols in 9MM and .38 Super. I routinely use 14-16# recoil springs in the 9MMs, and 16-18 1/2# springs in the Supers. I've not used any extra power mainsprings, but have used 18-23# mainsprings. These combinations have provided reliable function in Colt, Kimber, STI, Springfield and Dan Wesson 9MMs and Supers. The guns function reliably, even with the more lightly loaded ammo in both calibers. I have sometimes done dual caliber 9/38 Super conversions and run both reliably with the same springs, extractors, ejectors, etc. Hope you get it sorted out.
 
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rodfac

New member
I have sometimes done dual caliber 9/38 Super conversions and run both reliably with the same springs, extractors, ejectors, etc.
Click to expand...
Same here with my Colt Combat Commander...the same Series 70 vintage Colt uppers also work on my Ruger CMD in .45 ACP. Rod
 
R

rc

New member
Do you guys have problems running the 9mm 1911 fairly dry? I'm thinking some oil will help but I don't want to have to run my guns dripping with oil.
 
H

Hammerhead

New member
In my 9mm Kimber I went with a 22 pound mainspring and a 13 pound variable recoil spring.
For light loads I use a 12 pound recoil spring.
Have a 10 pounder on order.
My Springer 9mm only cycled with a 10 pound recoil spring.
In 38 i use a 23 pound mainspring and 14 recoil.
 
H

Hammerhead

New member
I like synthetic motor oil.
I use 5W-30 for cold morning starting.
My Springer was a dog, could barely cycle +p ammo, even with a 10 pound recoil spring, never could ' balance ' the springs.
The Kimber runs great (after an extractor tune).
I can run very light loads in the Kimber with 22/12 pound springs
 
R

rc

New member
I test fired them today and ran them wet. The Springfield had 2 light strikes on nato spec IZQ ammo made in 2014 by the head stamp out of about 50 rounds fired. Primers are pretty hard. 2 mags of GECO HP all fired fine and I had to bump the slide a couple of times. At least the gun was cycling, ejecting and loading 95% today. IZQ is the ammo that's given me the most problems due to hard primers and I may need to just run other ammo in the gun. The tool steel disconnect seems to still need to wear into the springfield a bit more. I didn't do a lot of polishing to the hole in the frame since I read they are supposed to be a close fit and it appears to be wearing in fine with the shooting I did today. Springfield's mim parts were rather rough and the gun hung up on the factory mim disconnect every time if you would pull the slide back without a mag sticking on the breech face which I chamfered a bit more so it can ride over the disconnect properly.

The kimber ejector is still a bit tight after a tune because it was way too tight to cycle rounds all the way to the chamber with my new barrels. The two Sig barrels replaced the original Kimber barrel in 9mm because I screwed up the originals feed ramp trying to get the 10 round metal form magazines to work in the gun. They were pretty much drop in with the right link with 0.05 lock up and no excess play when in battery. The sprinfield barrel never had a clearance issue with the metal form magazines. It has been a learning experience working on these 1911s for sure. Other than not accepting the 10 round magazines the Kimber did run pretty well from the factory with 9 shot magazines. I think the kimber chamber was smoother from the factory than the springfield and overall I would say it's factory build quality is a bit higher with a smoother feel out of the box.

I guess Bill has never had a problem with his 1911s running like a sewing machine from the factory. My first a Colt 1991A1 in 45 had a super rough chamber with a burr and would not fire more than a round or two without a jam out of the box. It works fine now after I polished out the chamber. But what do I know about 1911s after 25 years shooting them???? They don't always run perfectly but when they do they are great guns to shoot. I also had a Kahr that would not go through a magazine without choking. I polished the chamber and replaced the cheesy guide rod. Runs fine now. I polish the chambers by drilling the primer pocket of a fired case, installing a bolt and running it in and out of the chamber covered in red rouge while spinning with a drill. It's not a fancy tool but it is cheap to make and saves me a lot of money trying to break in guns by shooting them 500 or 1000 times before they run reliably.
 
P

Pomeroy

New member
"mainspring housing without lock"

Did you also replace the spring and rod inside the mainspring housing?
 
J

Jim Watson

New member
My SA hesitated on the disconnector. It was a rough sharp tip on the sear spring digging into the disconnector bevel. Substitute a Colt sear spring and smooth the disconnector bevel to fix.

A guy here had a 9mm Kimber that could not be made to work with 10 round magazines.
It did best with Metalform 9 shot Super magazines with round follower.
 
R

rc

New member
I'm using the Springfield factory spring with GI guide rod and GI style spring plug. I didn't like the two piece Springfield rod. If the hammer spring wasn't so heavy I'd try going with a 12 pound spring like my kimber or a flat wire 13.

I did replace the mainspring cap and retainer with wilson in the Remington flat checkered housing which fit the frame well using the factory springfield hammer spring. I also replaced the hammer strut and pin with wilson and brown parts.

The idea that my disconnect problem is the sear spring is interesting. The factory springfield spring looked fine but I didn't closely examine the tip and that certainly would be something to look at.

The Kimber with Sig barrels has no problem accepting any mags now and I believe will be fine with a bit of shooting.
 
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